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Post by barley on Mar 18, 2016 10:01:56 GMT
I don't really think Pet Passports as such are the problem, they were first introduced in early 2000 and worked really well for 12 years. It's when the quarantine laws were relaxed in 2012 that all these horrible issues starting cropping up  For the first 12 years of the Pet Passport Scheme, a tick treatment prior to dogs entering the UK was mandatory, and that stopped (or dramatically reduced) the risk of exotic ticks. The problem is, the kn0bs who make up these rules only care about human health, not animal. Tapeworm can affect humans, so they kept the treatment against that. Babesia from ticks doesn't affect humans, so they were happy to do away with the tick treatment  With the old laws, it was also so much harder to bring in under-age and non-vaccinated puppies on fake Passports. But of course, the fabulous new rules means we get plenty of that too now Eurgh, I hate it all. This is pretty much the only reason I'll be voting to leave the EU, so we can get some proper controls back on pet travel. Our current laws have a HUGE knock-on affect for people emigrating (long-haul) overseas with their pets. Australia and New Zealand have a 7 month 'set-up' period for pets entering from the UK, Japan is 9 months! Virtually every week I get phone calls which end with owners in floods of tears as they're almost ready to emigrate, want to get their pets travel booked up, and then realise they have months and months before they're eligible to travel. Which often means months & months in kennels for some pets, or being rehomed |
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Post by tonib on Mar 18, 2016 12:12:11 GMT
barley, it would be interesting to know if the pet passport/pet immigration rules change if we left the EU as even from non-EU countries there's no need for tick treatment as far as I can see (but you'll know more).
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Post by barley on Mar 18, 2016 12:33:37 GMT
barley , it would be interesting to know if the pet passport/pet immigration rules change if we left the EU as even from non-EU countries there's no need for tick treatment as far as I can see (but you'll know more). They would have to change as if we weren't in the EU, we couldn't be part of the EU Pet Passport Scheme  |
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Post by tonib on Mar 18, 2016 13:00:25 GMT
barley, We might not be part of the EU scheme if we left the EU but we could continue with the same rules as the EU scheme does for certain listed non-EU countries or even unlisted countries with the right paperwork. At least as far as understand the current rules
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 18, 2016 17:34:23 GMT
Eek I really hope the UK doesn't vote to leave the EU...
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Post by caz2golden on Mar 18, 2016 19:09:06 GMT
I am an undecided vote, though if this was one thing that would change it could sway me to a no vote as I want UK to remain rabies free. The presence of this tick disease shows the current regime is not doing enough to protect our pets.
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 18, 2016 19:45:36 GMT
Dogs must have a rabies vaccination to enter the uk. They could ask for an amendment to the pet passport scheme so that they also need tick treated too, I can't see any issue against that for the EU. I have to say though I've never found tick medication worked, the only thing that has worked for us is ACV, so I don't think anything other than quarantine can really block out diseases (and even then it's not guaranteed).
To be honest, you could say the same though for the massive amount of people who enter the UK every day from all over the world. There is a risk that diseases will be brought in, and it does happen, but we can't quarantine people or block entire continents from entering out country in case a disease is brought in.
If they brought back quarantine or blocked pets coming in from the EU I guess I could never move home again till Rosa and Mieze passed away, ha, coz there is no way I'd put them through that. Although to be honest if Scotland left Europe along the U.K. then I'm not sure I'd have the heart to move back there anyway sadly as there are many, many reasons why I think it would be a bad idea for the country which I won't get into here as I think you guys are great and I don't want to start an argument, I respect everyone's individual opinions on the matter.
Anyway everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Just an afterthought...
Iceland don't generally allow pets into the country, including animals from Iceland once they have left. A foreign pet at this point could wipe out the entire population of that animal with a relatively normal disease for the rest of us because they are so isolated and don't have immunities which dogs/horses/etc would normally pick up from contact with diseases. You would think that would be the case with the U.K. and Ireland too as they are also island nations, but it's not, and I have to wonder whether animals coming in from abroad have an effect on that.
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Post by barley on Mar 18, 2016 21:14:48 GMT
Iceland don't generally allow pets into the country, including animals from Iceland once they have left. A foreign pet at this point could wipe out the entire population of that animal with a relatively normal disease for the rest of us because they are so isolated and don't have immunities which dogs/horses/etc would normally pick up from contact with diseases. You would think that would be the case with the U.K. and Ireland too as they are also island nations, but it's not, and I have to wonder whether animals coming in from abroad have an effect on that. I'm sending an Otterhound to Reykjavik at the end of April. It'll be the first time I've exported to Iceland (as I'm sure you can imagine, it's not one of our most common destinations  ) so we spent quite a while looking into their regulations. Pets from the UK are super easy to get into Iceland, but you're right, they certainly don't want many others getting in.  Talk about jumping through rings of fire! I think they've got the right idea though, I really do. Other islands like Australia and New Zealand are SO, SO strict on pet imports - and impose a mandatory ten days quarantine for all arrivals (unless going between those two countries) which I think is a great idea. Ten days isn't unreasonable at all, it's the amount of time a lot of dogs would get left for boarding whilst owners are on holiday anyway, but it's enough time to check for parasites and for any desperately concerning red-flags to be raised. The UK will never stop pets from entering and will never reinstate the blanket rule of six months quarantine, so you have nothing to worry about! |
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 18, 2016 21:50:12 GMT
Ha, I wouldn't even leave Rosa in a kennels for more than a few hours so ten days would be a bit much for her, and especially Mieze. Much better than six months though and plenty time for a tick to get its fill and drop off if it hadn't been spotted (and as a medium length haired pet owner I can vouch for the fact that no amount of grooming with a fine toothed comb will guarantee you've got them all off!). Still though I think the UK could even get away with putting in a ten day quarantine period for pets entering the UK while its part of the EU if it bothered to ask, but I can't see the UK government bothering to. It would cost money to start up (even if owners paid for the quarantine care etc) and the current U.K. government don't seem like they'd care very much about dog diseases and things anyway other than the half or so of them wanting to blame Europe for everything bad and this being another thing they could use. As I say though I don't think the EU is blocking the UK from putting in a quarantine requirement or a tick treatment requirement or anything, and I think the best action in that regard would be to ask the government to toughen up its import laws and to raise awareness, rather than to just leave Europe (which does a lot of good too).
As for the risk of rabies and things, I think there's much more risk from illegally imported pets and ones with forged passports, or inappropriate checks at borders. People bringing over their beloved pet would I'd say be more likely to have taken their dog to the vet following a bite from an animal suspected of having rabies, and then the dog would have had to receive another rabies vaccination and would therefore not be allowed into the uk as they can't enter the uk until after a certain time of getting a rabies vaccination.
It wouldn't take much for them to do a check of the pet passport when the pet gets into the uk too for example, Rosa didn't even get her microchip checked last time and they just glanced at the passport pages and of course in the UK they don't even ask to see if she even has a pet passport and absolutely do not want to see it. The new updated passport does look a bit harder for someone to forge too but I have heard of vets being paid to fill out a passport with false details in order to ship in these seemingly fashionable rescue dogs from abroad to Germany and the U.K. where people will pay a lot of money for them. I think anyway if there was checks on both sides of the journey it could only be a good thing.
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Post by migsy on Mar 18, 2016 21:59:44 GMT
smilesbetter the saddest thing I heard recently was a Scottish lady saying one of her life long friends since childhood no longer speaks to her because they had opposing views on the vote to split from the u.k.What a shame they couldn't agree to disagree on the matter and just get on with life.Some people are autocratic and have a hissy fit if anyone dares to disagree with them or happens to have opinions which differ from theirs,which is really pathetic. As you rightly say,everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Anyway,back to pet diseases.A friend years ago had a job to do with patrolling and checking boats,he felt very strongly about those who smuggled dogs in with them as he said "I don't want to end up having to have my dog destroyed because some idiot has smuggled a dog into the country with rabies".It was before the channel tunnel was built,which has made the work even more complicated.
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 18, 2016 22:14:01 GMT
migsy I haven't heard of that happening with anyone I know, only read about it in daily mail articles. Maybe that kind of thing does happen somewhere but thankfully no one I know has had any lasting effect on relationships based on it and I know plenty people who were VERY passionate on both sides of the argument. I haven't heard anyone so far from back home saying they want to leave the EU but I suppose it's early days yet and we have the scottish government elections coming up soon so we've that to worry about anyway. I can't imagine that was a very fun job. It's weird, it must be very hard to check and see if people are smuggling in pets. When I've gotten ferries I've never had the car checked, and when I've walked onto them I've never had anything checked either. It did occur to me how easily I could have smuggled Rosa on board and kept her in my cabin for the night rather than having her in the kennels on her own haha. She is very well behaved and quiet, and to be honest with a few breathing holes added to one of those suitcases with wheels and an extending handle, I could have got her on no bother (not that I would ever even consider doing that haha!!!!). To be honest I would MUCH prefer if they did the same level of security checks on baggage etc for a ferry trip as they do on planes as it would make me feel much safer more than anything haha! I didn't even see sniffer dogs or anything, I'm sure there is more to it than meets the eye but it looked ridiculously easy to smuggle stuff into the uk. It's weird as I noticed this last time that they have all the security check areas there like at an airport it they were unused.
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Post by migsy on Mar 18, 2016 22:54:11 GMT
Yes it does seem odd smilesbetter,I do think we notice and look out for things as we are more aware for our own safety,our survival instincts kicking in? haha.I was glad we had already had our trip on the ferry after hearing about the illegal immigrants coming over on a Hull ferry,I would have been very worried about there being dangerous people on board.I could imagine someone waking us,knocking on the door with early morning tea,and letting out a piercing scream...oh heck,haha. The lady was speaking on a radio programme a while ago,think it was probably about family rifts,it was so very sad.I suppose that can happen when feelings are running high,some get very fiery,it didn't look pleasant at times on the t.v. news. |
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 19, 2016 9:00:43 GMT
Edit: I feel quite strongly about the refugee situation, don't wanna cause offence so I'll leave it at that X
Do you all use effective tick treatments that work to prevent the tick even biting the animal at all, or is it mainly the treatments that require the tick to bite the animal first? I suppose the second method must be okay against this as the article, or another that I read, said that they need to be on for 24 hours before they pass on the disease.
Do they fall off when they have been killed by tick medication though, or do they stay attached? I've seen dead ones still on a dog on a few occasions see and that makes me wonder if the stuff from the ticks body then enters the dogs blood stream as it would after 24 hours or whatever anyway?
I just use apple cider vinegar spray as I've posted on here before, I found it worked really well last year. It's not the easier treatment but I found it way more affective than the tick treatments I had used the previous year. At first I just sprayed her in the morning all over except on her face, then I noticed she still got ticks but only on her head, so I got a cloth thing and started to do her face gently too. Then she only seemed to get ticks after swimming, so I bring a small bottle of the mixture with me to spray her down after a swim. Its a bit time consuming but it's healthy, effective and once she dried off she doesn't noticeably smell of vinegar. Actually it seemed to be really good for her coat.
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Post by orpheous87 on Mar 19, 2016 20:31:12 GMT
Spoke to our vet yesterday and she said that Bravecto is the only tablet form of medication that covers ticks as well, and as we're using Comfortis for flea treatment at the moment, this would probably be the best way for us to go if we choose to. But, as we're quite far up north, she's not overly concerned about babesiosis at the moment anyway! Plus, she also said that we are not a particularly 'tick-y' area - which I kind of thought anyway considering I've had dogs for over 20 years and have only ever found the one tick - so we may not get it in our area, but agreed that it's best to be prepared.
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Post by barley on Mar 19, 2016 21:12:47 GMT
I normally use Advantage (not monthly and usually just in the summer) but I have swapped to Advantix for Alfie, my vet said that's the only one that actually repels ticks, rather than just killing them on contact. It's worrying!
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For the first 12 years of the Pet Passport Scheme, a tick treatment prior to dogs entering the UK was mandatory, and that stopped (or dramatically reduced) the risk of exotic ticks. The problem is, the kn0bs who make up these rules only care about human health, not animal. Tapeworm can affect humans, so they kept the treatment against that. Babesia from ticks doesn't affect humans, so they were happy to do away with the tick treatment 
) so we spent quite a while looking into their regulations. Pets from the UK are super easy to get into Iceland, but you're right, they certainly don't want many others getting in. 
Talk about jumping through rings of fire!
