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Post by gypsy on Aug 21, 2016 19:06:42 GMT
I'm so sorry to read this barley.  I mentioned the Arden Grange Sensitive wet food a while ago on the forum because its one of the foods our practice recommends for dogs with pancreatitis, ideal as its low fat and bland. I know when we see acute cases of pancreatitis its often necessary to fast for a least 48 hrs to rest the pancreas and stop the vomiting. Then when things have calmed down, very small, bland meals can be reintroduced. Sometimes if food is introduced too early it can exacerbate the problem. I understand this must be extremely worrying for you, but you've done everything right and you've acted fast. I'm sure Alfie is in good hands and will come through this. Sending you both positive thoughts x |
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Post by barley on Aug 21, 2016 19:42:11 GMT
Thank you gypsy  It's just a shock really as until Monday night (overnight) nothing had seemed wrong with him at all. That evening we'd done a walk at the nature reserve and there was nothing out of the ordinary, he went to bed fine and then it all started in the night! After he'd spent Tuesday at the vets, again he seemed ok until he went downhill again yesterday. He hasn't been fasted at all at any point so that's interesting to know, maybe we need to do that. I understand I will need to be guided by my vet, but moving forward, once he's on the straight and narrow again, do you have any idea what kinda of fat levels I need to stick to for wet/dry/treats? I am confused because my vet said stick to around the levels of Hills i/d and their dry food has more fat in than his regular dry food (14% in the Hills & 9% in Wainwrights senior). Then once we get into crude/dry matter etc... I'm like huh?! Vet really isn't much help as he's so pro Hills! |
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Post by caz2golden on Aug 21, 2016 20:02:41 GMT
Guess you might have to just say you refuse to feed your dog hills food as you have had bad reactions when giving before so you want him/her to give you dietary limits i.e fat, protein etc that you should stick to.
I realize you are waiting for Gypsy to reply however just for information I was given 7% fat as the guide for Gypsy when everything kicked off for her earlier in the year. I guess the limits advised will vary from vet to vet! I bet if I asked the new vet who saw Gypsy recently he would have a different opinion to the last one!
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Post by barley on Aug 21, 2016 20:14:11 GMT
Guess you might have to just say you refuse to feed your dog hills food as you have had bad reactions when giving before so you want him/her to give you dietary limits i.e fat, protein etc that you should stick to. I realize you are waiting for Gypsy to reply however just for information I was given 7% fat as the guide for Gypsy when everything kicked off for her earlier in the year. I guess the limits advised will vary from vet to vet! I bet if I asked the new vet who saw Gypsy recently he would have a different opinion to the last one! Thank you caz2golden... it was a general question to anyone who has been through it with their dogs, so your input is very much appreciated also! Would it be 7% fat for both wet & dry food? And do I go by the values printed on the bag/can, or do I need to do any kind of calculation?! |
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Post by barley on Aug 21, 2016 21:07:51 GMT
Just spoken to vets... Alfie has settled and gone to sleep so they're going to keep him in overnight after all. Said he has horrendous diarrhea now but has stopped being sick! He's staying on the drip overnight and they will leave the line in tomorrow morning so I can pick him up and take him to usual vet to be hooked back up again for fluids tomorrow. Poor little guy, but I'm glad he's sleeping and hopefully the drip will work it's magic overnight. Now I just need to try and sleep too... ha, fat chance of that I'm sure! Thanks for the well wishes and I'll keep you up to date x
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Post by scallywag on Aug 21, 2016 21:16:57 GMT
Thats good news that the little man has settled, coming out tonight would have been a big worry for you, try and think good thoughts about his sight recovery and drift off hopefully thinking of that. Get a milky drink inside you abd try to relax x
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Post by gypsy on Aug 21, 2016 21:17:46 GMT
Guess you might have to just say you refuse to feed your dog hills food as you have had bad reactions when giving before so you want him/her to give you dietary limits i.e fat, protein etc that you should stick to. I realize you are waiting for Gypsy to reply however just for information I was given 7% fat as the guide for Gypsy when everything kicked off for her earlier in the year. I guess the limits advised will vary from vet to vet! I bet if I asked the new vet who saw Gypsy recently he would have a different opinion to the last one! Thank you caz2golden ... it was a general question to anyone who has been through it with their dogs, so your input is very much appreciated also! Would it be 7% fat for both wet & dry food? And do I go by the values printed on the bag/can, or do I need to do any kind of calculation?! The general rule is 10% and below. But it very much depends on the individual dog because reducing fat can help but too low and other problems can develop. For example, a dog might then become weaker and more tired, suffer from skin/coat issues and not receive the appropriate nutrition. Obviously the fat level is listed on a bag of dry food but with wet food you have to convert it to dry matter. Subtract the percentage of moisture by 100, then divide the percentage of fat by the result. So using the Nature diet Fish (moisture 77% and fat 2.5%) 100 - 77 = 23 2.5 divide by 23 = 0.1086 So rounded up, 0.11 (which is 11%) When there is a likely reason for pancreatitis such as steroids, it may be necessary to move to a low fat diet for a few weeks until everything has been stable for a while and then gradually move back to the original diet. HTH |
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Post by tonib on Aug 22, 2016 1:02:35 GMT
Oh poor Alfie & you barley. I'm sorry to hear he needed the vets for IV hydration but glad he's finally settled enough to stay there overnight so it can be continuous & he can be carefuly monitored. fingers crossed for some improvement overnight. Hope you can manage to rest a bit at least. |
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Post by barley on Aug 22, 2016 9:01:33 GMT
Thank you for that gypsy, it's really helpful albeit really confusing! So even the Naturediet fish isn't really low enough fat then? Confused. Anyway, VetsNow put him on Royal Canin Sensitivity Control as they said that doesn't have wheat or maize. I don't know if that's true, I haven't looked yet. I guess a bit of possible itching isn't as big of a deal as the main problem right now. Picked him up from VetsNow this morning and took him to my vets. It was the first time I've really seen him look proper poorly Poor little man... he will stay in for fluids all day today and I can collect him at 5, they said they'll ring if there are any problems in the meantime. Said he may well need to go to VetsNow again tonight, so we'll see. Vet today said ''we do need to consider his age, he's an old dog''. The more I think of it, the more it upsets me. I don't think I really want to know fully what he meant by it....... Now the ''fun'' starts all over again with Petplan. Because yep, ''gastro-intestinal disorders'' are excluded. I spoke to someone in the call centre yesterday and they said the exclusion was put on in 2010 for 12 months and I could have applied to have it removed after that time - of course, I was never ever told that. Vet is going to send all his history from 2011 to show this is the first problem, tum wise, in all that time so hopefully it'll be lifted. |
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Post by scallywag on Aug 22, 2016 10:33:37 GMT
Awww bless him and {{{HUGS}}} to you too barley. Try and stay positive xxx |
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Post by scallywag on Aug 22, 2016 12:29:18 GMT
barley what did you vets say to the food that the VetsNow put Alfie on ?
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Post by caz2golden on Aug 22, 2016 12:35:39 GMT
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Post by alfiemummy on Aug 22, 2016 17:02:40 GMT
The last thing you want when Alfie is poorly is trouble with the insurance again I hope they change their mind as that was a bit sneaky that they didn't tell you! Big hugs for you and Alfie xx |
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Post by barley on Aug 22, 2016 19:27:05 GMT
Awww bless him and {{{HUGS}}} to you too barley . Try and stay positive xxx barley what did you vets say to the food that the VetsNow put Alfie on ? Thank you xx Vet didn't really say anything about the food to be honest  Eeek I have no idea, they didn't elaborate as to what one it was and they didn't give me any either! They just said chicken & rice RC Sensitivity so I would guess at the one that Pet Supermarket has said not for pancreatitis!! The Animal Health Trust told me to feed soaked Burns chicken & rice and I think I want to stick with this as trust their opinion the most, it's wheat/maize free (what makes Alfie itch) and it's the lowest fat of the lot @ 7.5%, if compared with the various wets and the horribly confusing dry matter calculation! Also a complete food that he likes so if he has to stay on it for good then so be it really. Such a minefield isn't it!! The last thing you want when Alfie is poorly is trouble with the insurance again I hope they change their mind as that was a bit sneaky that they didn't tell you! Big hugs for you and Alfie xx Thank you xx Some good new I think/hope on the insurance front. Man I spoke to today said they would lift the exclusion and cover all this if vet records show no problems in that first 12 months. I am so hoping they don't! I am racking my brains and almost certain he didn't have any tummy issues in that time (normally guts of steel!). Anyway, Alfie is home He hasn't been sick all day today but has a really rotten upset tum, but they said that's all part of the pancreatitis. Picked him up just before 6 and they said he hadn't had upset tum since early afternoon & he hasn't been sick at all today. Although they haven't fed him all day either so it's difficult to know if there's an improvement or he's just empty!! He's been on IV fluids with vetergesic for pain & zantac for his tummy and still has the little IV thingy (...tap?!) in his leg as vet wants him back in for the day again tomorrow. He had a very, very tiny bit of food about an hour ago and so far, it's stayed in so fingers crossed. He's super tired but is sleeping really soundly so that's good. Vet has given ProKolin for upset tum... erm, pack says 40% fats & oils... do I need to stop reading into things too much and just trust the vets?! |
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Post by gypsy on Aug 22, 2016 19:32:00 GMT
Going back to Naturesdiet fish www.naturediet.co.uk/product/fish/My dry matter calc comes out slightly different! 100-77 = 23 2/23 = 8.7% fat dry matter so I would have thought this would be ok? Oh sorry...when I answered the post I was already browsing an online doggy shop so just checked the Nature diet fish on there and it said fat was 2.5...which is were I got my calculation from. Noticed on Pets at Home website it states the Nature diet fish is 4%?  Best to check the manufacturer's page then!  So yes barley its fine for Alfie if it agrees with him. FWIW the Sensitivity Control wet foods usually work well - nice and bland too, not fussed on the dry though. Hope Alfie is ok. |
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So yes 
