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Post by laurie8998 on Dec 4, 2014 23:03:08 GMT
Hi all! This is my first post so please excuse any rambling or if the subject has been raised before I have a 14 month old German Shepherd with severe hip dysplasia, currently being managed on painkillers but will be having a hip replacement at some point early next year. He was diagnosed at five months and showing symptoms prior to that so he's been on painkillers for a while now, although I'm not ruling them out as a cause for his change in behaviour. Our problem is he has started displaying aggression towards dogs and people out on our walks. The dog aggression has probably been happening around two months, there's no snapping or attempts at biting but he does bark and lunge and has a general "back off" stance about him. The people aggression is new and what worries me most. If someone approaches too closely or comes out of nowhere, such as a jogger, he will lunge and bark. The vet tells me this is common in a dog with hip dysplasia and worsening pain, and whilst I can find a lot of stuff about pain causing aggression and why I can't find too much about how to actually manage it, as I can't eliminate the pain until he has a (hopefully) successful operation and recovery. We meet a lot of regular dog walkers round our way, he's fine with people/dogs he knows, this is aimed at the unfamiliar. I also take him to a dog training class and if a new dog starts, again he's fine with dog and owner, no issue, this seems to be behaviour limited to an outdoor environment, which I'm guessing is because he feels a bit too exposed and people/dogs are appearing from out of nowhere. He's a gorgeous dog, which makes a lot of people want to come an pat him, but we now have to tell them to stay away which I am so sad about.. He was growing into a really friendly, sociable dog until recently. Has anyone dealt with this before? I can't really afford behaviourists and such like at the moment and not sure they'd help anyway until the pain is resolved, although also don't want this becoming too much of a learned behaviour so it continues for life! I've had large breeds before but never had a shepherd. I've read a lot on the breed and I had planned to get him into scent work/agility until his condition took those plans away and he's restricted on exercise so boredom/lack of mental and physical stimulation may be contributing. I also accept I've probably mishandled a situation somewhere along the line and inadvertently encouraged or not effectively put a stop to the behaviour. Any advice or personal stories would be a big help! Thanks for reading Laurie xx
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Post by caz2golden on Dec 5, 2014 13:58:08 GMT
As your going to dog training can the trainer give you any advice?
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Post by zahada on Dec 5, 2014 15:05:07 GMT
At 14 months he is still an adolescent who may be going through the 2nd fear period. Shame you can't see a behaviourist, as he/she, after liaising with your vet, would be in the best position to formulate a plan. Without actually witnessing the situations it's not really possible to know exactly what the behaviour is. Could be barrier frustration rather than aggression?
Is he insured? Some insurance companies will pay for behavioural advice.
Other than that, perhaps not allowing him to get beyond his non-reactive threshhold so that he doesn't lunge and cause himself more pain, and does not look out for more unknown dogs/people. In other words, keep him far enough from things that stress him, thus keeping him physically and mentally comfortable.
Also teaching him to respond to you on cue so you could distract him instantly and reward him. Hopefully your trainer can come up with more suggestions. Good luck.
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Post by charlottte on Dec 5, 2014 17:39:59 GMT
Was going to suggest second fear period but Zahada already has it covered.
Barking/lunging is very common in German shepherds too. Im not saying that's an excuse for it but definitely seems to be common so you could be gigging genetics
Not much you can do management wise other than keeping your distance and asking people not to interact. You could use treats to change his perception of people.
It could also be worth conditioning him to wearing a muzzle. With the new DDA amendments, if someone has a reasonable belief that your dog is a threat it could land you in trouble. By getting him used to a muzzle then he can't do any physical damage to anyone else.
Definitely don't just assume it's down to pain though. While it could (and probably will be) contributing I can't imagine it will disappear with the hip replacement.
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Post by charlottte on Dec 5, 2014 17:43:14 GMT
You could also teach solid eye contact so if you see a trigger you can take him to one side and keep his attention on you Or you could teach him to touch your hand with his nose so if you need to walk past something he isn't focused on it Click to Calm is a good book for aggression/reactivity
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Post by migsy on Dec 5, 2014 20:32:00 GMT
Treats can be a great distraction,look out for a possible problem approaching,have a treat ready,and get dog to focus on that until you are past,then give the treat and praise profusely.I showed a friend this simple trick,and it worked like a charm. A lady caught my attention and curiosity only a few days ago,as she was at one side feeding her dog treats as fast as it could eat them! and realised it was until we got past,but the speed feeding seemed rather extreme as neither dog had made a sound.
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Post by teegiebear on Dec 6, 2014 15:08:36 GMT
Do you use a watch me command in training classes? Or what do you do or say to get your dogs attention while walking to heel? Maybe try in classes learning a watch me command your trainer should be able to help show you the best way to teach this and use this when you are out and about.
Shepherds can be bouncy and lunging and vocal so it could be a mix of pain and behavioural, your trainer in class should be able to advise as they see your dog in class situations but if he acts different out with it may not always be pain, could be pain could be behaviour. If the behaviour varies depending on day and how much walking he has done or day after training classes it could be pain aswell enhancing. Last training class we had a flat coat who only took part in half the class and certain parts so he wasn't too sore for the next day.
You may be able to still do some scent work on a small scale to learn this and use Kongs or make him work for his food to try mental stimulation to make up for the excercise
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Post by laurie8998 on Dec 7, 2014 18:35:27 GMT
Thanks for the replies! The class I take him to is just a community centre class, the trainers aren't behaviourists more just teaching the sit-stay-heel etc, I take him mainly in an effort to keep him socialised. I'm sure they could give me a few tips, but I probably am going to have to get a behaviourist in despite the cost. I have noticed that shepherds, especially males, have a tendency to bark & lunge more than other breeds so I won't put it all down to pain, but am almost certain to pain is the biggest cause in the change in behaviour. The muzzle we have thought about, his current only experience of it though is having it put on while the vet pulls his hips into painful positions so would have to try and introduce it as a positive somehow. He does have good eye contact in the house and he'll do most things for treats, he's very trainable until he's distracted. As I said about him being fine with new dogs/people in class, he's also undistracted by other dogs/people in class. So we can do recalls through about ten other people walking about with dogs + stays and sits with other dogs walking around him but when we're out and a dog walks too close, you can't get his attention enough to feed treats/get eye contact. Same with heelwork, he walks very nicely to heel until another dog appears and then he's straight out front and he's not listening to "heel" anymore. I will try the treat idea and just try and pull him to one side and maintain a big enough distance so he can't yank me towards the other dog. I have got some clickers as well, but I never really got round to using them properly so will have a look for that click to calm book and see if that helps. Thanks again, Laurie
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Post by zahada on Dec 7, 2014 21:53:00 GMT
Thanks for the replies! The class I take him to is just a community centre class, the trainers aren't behaviourists more just teaching the sit-stay-heel etc, I take him mainly in an effort to keep him socialised. I'm sure they could give me a few tips, but I probably am going to have to get a behaviourist in despite the cost. I have noticed that shepherds, especially males, have a tendency to bark & lunge more than other breeds so I won't put it all down to pain, but am almost certain to pain is the biggest cause in the change in behaviour. The muzzle we have thought about, his current only experience of it though is having it put on while the vet pulls his hips into painful positions so would have to try and introduce it as a positive somehow. He does have good eye contact in the house and he'll do most things for treats, he's very trainable until he's distracted. As I said about him being fine with new dogs/people in class, he's also undistracted by other dogs/people in class. So we can do recalls through about ten other people walking about with dogs + stays and sits with other dogs walking around him but when we're out and a dog walks too close, you can't get his attention enough to feed treats/get eye contact. Same with heelwork, he walks very nicely to heel until another dog appears and then he's straight out front and he's not listening to "heel" anymore. I will try the treat idea and just try and pull him to one side and maintain a big enough distance so he can't yank me towards the other dog. I have got some clickers as well, but I never really got round to using them properly so will have a look for that click to calm book and see if that helps. Thanks again, Laurie I don't buy into that statement. Other than that owners think that the behaviour is normal so accept it. I have a friend who now has German shepherds no 4 and 5. Males,entire, as the other 3 were. They do not lunge or bark at anything. They are hardly ever on leads. They are intensely socialised as puppies, my friend hardly does anything else during the first few weeks after getting her pup. They are intensely trained and exercised. They are fantastic dogs, confident, proud, loyal, alert and watchful. True GSD as they should be.
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Post by laurie8998 on Dec 7, 2014 23:15:48 GMT
I'm just telling you what I've observed. I've had intact male dogs prior to my GSD and there are certain breeds that seemed to bark and lunge more at them, particularly when they're male. I'm not saying all males of that breed do it, and you can put it down to poor socialisation or training or genetics or whatever you want. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to manage my dog before it becomes too much of a learned habit.
That's great for your friend. Did any of them have severe hip problems that started showing from 3/4 months old? Problems that restrict their exercise and play? If I'm sounding a bit defensive, I'm not trying to be, it's hard to get across in type. Quite frankly, I'd love nothing more than to "intensely train and exercise" him. Take him out for a couple of hours run or get him into agility or whatever and not have him limping around in pain after because he's overdone it. We do mental stimulation/training exercises with him everyday in an effort to tire him out. In my opinion, I socialised him well during his crucial puppy months and I still make an effort to now, I take him to a class, where he has to sit half of it out because he shouldn't be running around too much. Until recently he was quite content to meet other people/dogs when we were out and about. He goes to hydrotherapy once-twice a week which tires him out well, but can't do that every day. He hasn't been able to be the active carefree pup he should have been and would have been had he not had hip dysplasia.
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Post by caz2golden on Dec 15, 2014 20:09:14 GMT
You can socialise a dog (preferably as a puppy) without doing excess exercise! All you have to do is go somewhere busy and sit at a public bench. This is what I have done with all the puppies I have had and I think it has done them good. It is amazing what passes you by from people on bikes, kids on scooters, disability scooters, people or all ages, hear everything from cars and emergency vehicles to wildlife etc.
Even before my dogs could go out I would sit in car with boot open so they could look out and hear things but I could prevent them saying hello to dogs etc.
Though a totally different breed I do know a lab who from very young age (was probably about 12 weeks at the time) was diagnosed with hip dysplasia. With very careful raising with regard to diet, supplements and exercise, they have been really lucky and she now does not seem to have any issue at all. I suspect that as she is a very fit and lean dog that its her excellent muscle tone and regular exercise that keeps her together. Its not as if she was diagnosed with a mild issue, vets wanted to intervene and operate as a puppy but the owner could not afford the sum of money that was required (They were in process of starting insurance when she was diagnosed so it was never going to be covered by the insurance).
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