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Post by smilesbetter on Sept 16, 2014 17:11:36 GMT
I feel sorry for all those poor snakes living in those little plastic boxes with no behavioural enrichment or anything at all. Poor things. I also don't like the fact that they are being bred so that even more snakes have to go on to live that was. So sad. Would maybe watch this show if they talked about making fun (and large) enclosures for the snakes, behavioural enrichment, etc etc. nice idea having a wee lassie talking about snakes, shame she's not telling people about things which might lead to a better life for captive snakes, coz a format like that might actually manage it if she did.
Also wouldn't normally watch things that have been posted on this forum in such a way, it's spam really,since you aren't posting anywhere else in the forum or contributing at all. I don't really expect you to come back on and read this even, unless maybe you are coming to spam us again.just thought I'd say anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 17:39:34 GMT
You have no clue what you are talking about first off. Cats were once wild before being domesticated, correct? You should build a huge outside enclosure so they can be in their natural habitat. I usually don't reply to these such things but I feel I need to educate you. First off you must not know much about Snakes. They DON'T LIKE LARGE AREAS. They feel threatened, scared, shy, secretive. In the wild they are found in logs, wedged in rocks, etc. Put a smaller Ball Python in a 55 Gallon Tank with an over-head Heat Lamp= Not good feeding response, they don't digest food if they even eat because of the large air volume consuming the heat. Put that same Snake in a smaller enclosure, with less air, and belly heat like we do. They thrive well, never get sick, feed great! We have never had a sick Snake, all are healthy and happy. Ask any expert about the differences. Now if you are keeping Monitors, or active Reptiles like that, sure they require space. I value anyone's opinion but you are wrong and if you aren't educated please don't post a comment about the way we keep our Snakes. Thanks SnakeHuntersTV <3
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Post by smilesbetter on Sept 16, 2014 18:55:17 GMT
Well thanks for the insults, I was simply stating my opinion. Just because it's different to yours, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
I have seen some fantastic snake tanks which are absolutely packed full of live plants, branches, plenty of areas for the snake to hide and which use various forms of behavioural enrichment to ensure the snake is able to exhibit all of it's natural behaviours. Obviously this isn't right for all snakes but is just an example of one. Some snakes like a deep, warm, sand filled tank where they can burrow. It depends on the snake, but in each case a large enclosure which utilises aspects of the snakes natural habitat are in my opinion much better for the snakes well being than a standard plastic box.
Plus snakes are not generally domesticated, whereas cats have become domesticated and are very different from their wild ancestors. However, I have studied both feline and canine body language, as well as how the wolf and the wild cats from which cats came, interacts with one another and lives. Plus I utilise behavioural enrichment for all three and even arrange my house so that they have the areas that they need to be able to perform their natural behaviours, for example my dog has her own den, and we have arranged shelves and furniture specifically so that the cats are able to climb, survey the house and get around without having to touch the floor if they don't want. I would not get a pet if I didn't feel I could provide for them the car and environment that they need after all. In addition to that, I would not buy a kitten unless it was a rescue case, as I think that the country I live in has an overpopulation problem with cats and there are too many needing homes (likewise with snakes here in actual fact, although not to the same extent).
And I do know about snakes, I just don't own one as I don't want to encourage the trade of what are still wild animals. I would adopt an adult one from rescue if I felt I could give them the correct environment and care for their needs. I'm no expert though and so wouldn't feel I could give one everything it needs.
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Post by scallywag on Sept 16, 2014 19:38:13 GMT
Since when do we "LIKE" our own posts ? Very unusual, not seen that before @snakehunterstv and we are all entitled to our opinion are we not ? This is a friendly forum, perhaps you may like to bare that in mind ? Or find another one
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Post by scallywag on Sept 16, 2014 21:05:05 GMT
You have no clue what you are talking about first off. Cats were once wild before being domesticated, correct? You should build a huge outside enclosure so they can be in their natural habitat. I usually don't reply to these such things but I feel I need to educate you. First off you must not know much about Snakes. They DON'T LIKE LARGE AREAS. They feel threatened, scared, shy, secretive. In the wild they are found in logs, wedged in rocks, etc. Put a smaller Ball Python in a 55 Gallon Tank with an over-head Heat Lamp= Not good feeding response, they don't digest food if they even eat because of the large air volume consuming the heat. Put that same Snake in a smaller enclosure, with less air, and belly heat like we do. They thrive well, never get sick, feed great! We have never had a sick Snake, all are healthy and happy. Ask any expert about the differences. Now if you are keeping Monitors, or active Reptiles like that, sure they require space. I value anyone's opinion but you are wrong and if you aren't educated please don't post a comment about the way we keep our Snakes. Thanks SnakeHuntersTV <3 Since the initial post has now been deleted I am keeping this so's smiles and me don't look stupid
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Post by alfiemummy on Sept 16, 2014 21:11:59 GMT
Looks like the whole account is gone?
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Post by scallywag on Sept 16, 2014 21:13:10 GMT
Looks like the whole account is gone? Yep deleted himself
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Post by smilesbetter on Sept 16, 2014 22:16:24 GMT
Whoops haha. He was just spamming us anyway. Wouldn't mind people advertising stuff if they actually wanted to join in with the forum too haha. On that note, just got a personal message about that dog hearts community or something. They're a bit persistent...
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Post by cat001 on Oct 7, 2014 11:44:32 GMT
I know this is an old redundant thread but i'm going to post anyways as it's a topic i'm interested in.
Keeping reptiles in small plastic containers is common place and is considered acceptable because reptiles do not move as much as mammals (energy conservation), reptiles are considered to prefer small environments and these RUBs facilitate accurate climate control. However I believe it is a fallacy that reptiles prefer small enclosures. The argument is that reptiles spend much of their time hidden away out of view but this does not mean that they have a preference for living in smaller environments, it means they prefer to have hiding opportunities within their environments. There are no studies that I can find which actually validates the belief that reptiles prefer small enclosures, I have only observed that they prefer to have opportunity to remove themselves from view (this can be provided for in a large enclosure by providing plenty of hides and cover using rocks, branches, faux leaves etc). Observing their behaviour it seems clear enough to me that some species will become most active at a certain time of day or night and small enclosure would not facilitate this active period. reptiles are still very under-studied and their preferences not clearly understood. We do not know how integral to their well-being the facility of expression of movement is to reptiles and it makes more sense to me to facilitate climbing, explorative and other active behaviours to benefit both physiological and psychological health.
Housing hatchlings in smaller enclosures however (especially young snakes) may be more prudent as they are more likely to escape from a larger enclosure with being so small and able to fit through small gaps.
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Post by cat001 on Oct 8, 2014 20:15:30 GMT
Just some additional notes to consider...
An example of how the expression of movement can impact on health; the level of mobility an animal is able to express can impact on the formation of bones. This is due to the fact that bones are constantly remodelled, going through a continuous process of resorption and deposition in response to physiological needs. When greater mechanical stresses are placed on the bones through a higher level of activity, bone deposition increases in response causing the bones to be stronger. More sedentary individuals, i.e. those not provided with sufficient opportunity to exercise, will experience a decline in bone mass causing them to be more prone to fracturing. Reptiles by nature are limited in how much activity they are able to express due to their ectothermic nature. A reptileβs metabolic rate is much slower than that of a mammal and so it must conserve energy in response. However, it should be noted that the level of activity expressed between species varies. For instance, some species will adopt a sit and wait approach to hunting, feeding opportunistically to exert as little energy as possible, whilst others will actively hunt, some may also be more nomadic in nature. Another issue with an induced sedentary lifestyle; Inappropriate housing (along with poor feeding) may lead to obesity and the onset of fatty liver syndrome which may impact on vitamin D3 production and uptake of calcium. RUBs (Really useful boxes) are very restrictive, even vivariums will only allow for a limited range of activity generally only allowing the animal to move on a few customary pathways as these enclosures are long but generally lack width. Therefore the enclosure must be suitable to the entire physical needs of the reptile facilitating all manner of natural movement, for instance, arboreal species will require climbing apparatus to maintain normal physiological health.
This is an area that is very poorly studied (benefits of larger enclosure) and I would love to see studies on it. Another area of limited study is UV requirements for snakes. Snakes seem to survive well without with supplemental UV but could it be beneficial? It's just something that's not been well studied as the animals seem to be coping under current management but attitudes and opinions towards animal keeping is constantly being updated and re-formed with new discoveries into their preferences and benefits of various methods of husbandry.
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