|
|
Post by robbins on Apr 15, 2013 12:48:38 GMT
Hi all,
I have a small dilemma with a trainer that I have been dealing with. I went to see this person to seek help with my rescue dog, Merry, who is very reactive around other dogs.
The trainer I spoke with first consults with the pet owner, evaluates the problem and then drafts a training plan to be put into operation with the dog.
The consultation was very promising. This person is very well qualified, came recommended by a friend and when I spoke with her, could answer my questions and impressed me in her approach.
However, when she presented the training plan, I see several things that I have a difficulty with. Mainly, her recommendation that I pin Merry on her side when she goes into a reactive mode.
I am not at all convinced that this "alpha rolling" is a good approach to use with any dog but especially with a dog that is fearful.
Secondly, she suggests that I refuse to allow Merry to sniff or toilet on walks. Instead, we walk at my pace and she is allowed to toilet in the garden when we return.
I do not believe that this is helpful.
There are some very good suggestions in the plan that I feel can help but I really am uncertain about bringing Merry back. i have not been to a trainer before and so I am not sure if my gut instinct is the right one.
I really would appreciate other opinions on this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Weims on Apr 15, 2013 13:00:16 GMT
I would say find a new trainer. Personally, I'm against the alpha role thing, I think in a situation like yours it would make matters worse. Obviously being firm is a must, but scruffing your dog when it reacts can't help it's confidence. If you don't feel comfortable doing it then that's another reason not to. If Merry is a big dog it will be very hard to keep her down and if she is distressed, even harder.
I believe part of a dogs enjoyment for walk is in the sniffing and exploring, and refusing her to toilet on walks (in my opinion) is ridiculous.
However, saying all that, I'm not a professional trainer in anyway, and can only state my own opinion. Maybe Smokeybear can help you?
|
|
|
|
Post by gladys on Apr 15, 2013 15:12:05 GMT
Personally I would find another trainer as I don't think you should pin a dog down like that. Also from someone who has a dog that did have walking issues because of a harmless tree branch and pigeon scare, I wouldn't do anything like that which could cause the enjoyment of a walk to be taken away from the dog or even stress the dog out when a walk is about to happen. But like Weims said I'm sure some professional advice will be given later.  |
|
|
|
Post by bextull on Apr 15, 2013 15:26:58 GMT
I too would find a new trainer. I am puzzled as to how not allowing a dog to sniff of toilet on walks offers a solution to any problem?
I much prefer Oscar to toilet on walks as oppose to in the garden, less mess to clean up for me.....
Or, you can ask why trainer recommends this stuff and see if there is an alternativd that you agree with.
I think that pinning her on her side when she becomes reactive will solve just as much as forcing a dog into a sit, which is very little.
|
|
|
|
Post by bextull on Apr 15, 2013 15:49:32 GMT
I walk in fields, i never clean up after oscar. Seeing as i am the only person who uses the fields and its full of horse and fox poo anyway, i dont really have to.
In towns i do, but even then oscar goes as far into the ditch as he can!!
|
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Apr 15, 2013 16:27:14 GMT
It sounds to me that your potential "trainer" is one of those crackpots who are into so-called "Dominance Theory". I presume that the 'alpha-roll' is to show the dog that YOU are the Dominant Leader: it's a similar barmy idea on walks to deprive your dog of the pleasures of sniffing and, it has to be said, pooing and peeing (especially the latter with its marking importance for dogs).
As others have said - find another trainer!!
Your dog is almost certainly reactive around other dogs due to lack of confidence, fear, and/or lack of socialization. Taking the advice of your trainer will not, in any way, help your dog to overcome her problems and lack of confidence: on the contrary, the actions might well increase her levels of anxiety.
I would add that I think you have acted wisely in seeking the opinions of folk on the forum. There is a great deal of experience and knowledge available here. I would not call myself a Dog Trainer, but I have some experience of trying to sort out very troubled rescue dogs, with a modicum of success - and I do not care for the advice you have been given.
|
|
|
|
Post by BorderTerrier on Apr 15, 2013 16:34:47 GMT
Bextull!   Personally, I would find a new trainer. I am not with the 'alpha role' thing and it is just RIDICULOUS to not let your dog toilet or sniff whilst out on walks? You simply CAN NOT hold a dog back from toileting outside it is unhealthy and un right! With the sniffing - dogs enjoy sniffing - dogs noses are so much stronger than ours. Sniffing gives dogs stimulation and its what they do. Dogs do sniff and toilet as part of the dog's life cycle. NOBODY I have EVER come across holds their dogs back from doing either (both) of these things. Ask the trainer WHY she reccomends the 'alpha role' and WHY she reccomends not letting your dog so neither of a natural dog thing whilst out on walks. Find a new trainer, I say. Of course its up to you, but I would certainly find a new trainer. Maybe this trainer is a good'n for most things, but you must be completely 100% happy to keep a trainer. If this trainer was right for you, you wouldn't need to ask for opinions here, you'd just say, 'right, this is a great trainer, I have no hesitation to go with this one!'. But your not, so I would say find another. Hope this helps you make your mind up |
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Apr 15, 2013 16:41:02 GMT
Any clown can call themselves a "Dog Trainer" but there ARE highly regarded organisations whose members will be worthy of consideration (some may require referral through your vet) such as Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (APBC), Association of Pet Dog Trainers or The Guild of Dog Trainers.
|
|
|
|
Post by charlottte on Apr 15, 2013 19:55:34 GMT
WALK. AWAY I'm not sure if I can add anything but I'll share anyway. Anyone who is properly trained using the most recent techniques will not condone dominance techniques as te dominance theory is outdated and disproven. Dominance techniques (such as alpha rolling) only increase stress and frustration and they don't actually teach your dog to deal with the situation, it suppresses the behaviour. Any trainer that mentioned dominance, packs or Rank Reduction programmes should be avoided. Look for an APDT trainer. Or if you go through your vet they should be able to recommend an APBC trainer. I recommend it a lot but for reactivity BEhaviour Adjustment Training could be worth researching |
|
|
|
Post by charlottte on Apr 16, 2013 6:16:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by teegiebear on Apr 16, 2013 8:31:19 GMT
There's lots of great thoughts above and all ill add to it is if you don't feel comfortable with the trainer or the training techniques then it won't work for you or your dog.
They might find this works for other dogs so u could querie them but if you are unsure of the trainer and don't trust them then you are likely to be wasting money and you and merry won't get much out of it.
When I got my pups my old trainer wasn't about so nt to another dog club and it wasn't for us and too collie focused. Best thing I done is find the old trainer had set up her new centre and my dogs are doing great since they've changed clubs.
You need to trust and have confidence in your trainer and if you don't then personally I don't think it's worth it. U won't be enthastic and consistent and this won't help your dog no matter what you are training them
|
|
|
|
Post by migsy on Apr 16, 2013 9:40:07 GMT
Robbins; I agree with all of the comments above.I am a firm believer in trusting your own instincts,so find another trainer.The pleasure of a dogs walk is mostly in sniffing around,it's like us reading the newspapers,unless of course it is at every tree and lamp post,then the command 'leave' or 'walk on' can be used.
The same goes for tree marking,but to stop a dog toileting at all is just plain crazy.I know some train their dog to go in the garden before a walk,as are guide dogs,but that's fine.
When one of my dogs gradually went blind with cataracts and also became deaf,he still enjoyed his walks and was perfectly happy.As a vet once told me,their enjoyment is sniffing other animals scents.
|
|
|
|
Post by robbins on Apr 17, 2013 11:01:22 GMT
Hi all,
Thank you so much for your responses, you have helped me greatly.
I feel that this trainer is not the one for Merry and I'm going to leave off dealing with her. Thank you for your insights.
Charlotte, thank you so much for the links, very helpful.
Thanks everyone, you've helped clear my mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by BorderTerrier on Apr 17, 2013 17:28:43 GMT
I'm glad you made your decision robbins Glad we could be of help to you - also I hope you find a reliable 100% trainer for you and Merry. |
|
|
|
Post by ptsdservicedogs on Apr 27, 2013 8:24:51 GMT
Other people have previously said this,"Find other trainer." Most trainers do not recommend alpha rolls, they can cause more problems and you can end up getting bitten. It never ceases to amaze me that some trainers will say do this, if they do the the dog bites the excuse is often used that the dog is dangerous and they wont train it or tell the owner that they must perform the alpha roll. In addition to s your dog is from a rescue, so you don't know all it's history. That could lead you to more problems. I would suggest you look for a trainer who uses positive reinforcement.
|
|
