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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 9, 2014 0:12:25 GMT
Arghhhhhh!!!!
Rosa is a great puppy in so many ways, but our toilet training is not going well at all. Not only does she appear to have no qualms about going to the toilet in her play pen (where she sleeps) and never let's us know she needs, but on the off chance she uses the newspaper she lies down it, rolls around in it, tears up the wet newspaper and flings it around her pen. Mostly with wee, but she apparent has poop parties too as when she poops indoors (we're getting good at timing when she needs these) she smears it around everywhere, and somehow there are bits of poop all over the pen.
We praise her loads when she does go outside and take her out loads, but today I took her out to the spot, and she didn't do anything, came back in and not long after she had one of her pee & poop smeared all over the place haha. I understand some puppies take a while to get toilet trained, but if anything Rosa seems to be getting worse rather than better. And she's always covered in wee no matter how often she goes out!
It's not like I leave her very long. I never catch her in the act of going to the toilet, but if I see fresh wee and go to get something to clean it with, when I return with the cleaning stuff the wee is everywhere! It's a little frustrating to say the least. I've heard not to scold dogs when weeing in the wrong place as the might get scared to go to the toilet near you, but I haven't done this even once. I've only twice seen her weeing in the wrong place, and just grabbed her and legged it downstairs.
So, does anyone have any tips from how to get her to change this bad habit? And also perhaps on how to teach her not to play with her own wee and poop (or that of any other dog haha!)?
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Post by orpheous87 on Mar 9, 2014 22:24:34 GMT
I haven't had a pup for a long time, so I can't remember exactly what we did with Pepper for her toilet training. I do remember her crate helped a lot though, although obviously that's not helping you!
One tip I have heard for when you're taking them out, they're not doing anything so you bring them in and they go, is to take them out as usual. Then, if they're not doing anything, bring them back in for a minute or two, then take them back outside where they'll hopefully go to the toilet. I think that this tip actually came from Victoria Stilwell, in one of her podcasts. She put it that it's almost as though the trigger for the toilet is when the pup is coming back in, so if you bring them back in but then take them pretty much straight back out, it can break the habit.
Other than that, I think you've tried everything I can think of. Has Rosa been checked out by the vet to make sure she hasn't got a medical reason for not toileting outside?
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Post by belladad on Mar 10, 2014 14:37:05 GMT
Hi smilesbetter, I remember toilet training Bella when we got her home; I've never felt sooooo exhausted! You are right not to scold or get angry/annoyed/frustrated with Rosa. Mega patience and quiet zen like acceptance are required, difficult I know, but stick with it. I'm not sure from your post whether you have immediate outdoor access; housetraining without this is a bit more complicated. Our 'schedule' for Bella at 8 weeks was: every hour to two hours, immediately on her waking, even after a snooze, within 20 mins of eating or drinking, within 5 mins after calm play, immediately after vigorous play, after exercise. If you take Rosa out to empty her tanks and nothing happens, bring her back in. If you dampen a puppy pad with her wee and have that outside as her 'preferred' area, she might be able to associate this as where she should go. I stood outside for a good ten minutes once, whilst madam sniffed and had a wee stroll, then when she did go, I jumped, and did my super-happy-dafty-daddy dance for her  When you go outside for a toilet break, don't play or have much interaction with Rosa. If the outcome is zero, take her back in, BUT, use your super power of pee/poo observance to whisk her outside! Only go happy-nuts and sing her praises when she does the business at the right spot, a nice yummy reward helps as well (but don't do this too often or she'll 'hold on' and just wee/poo a little because she'll know there's more treats coming). You're simply conditioning her to associate toileting with the bestest ever praise and rewards! Does she have a favourite 'spot' to wee in? When you clean up can you leave a piece of soiled paper where you want her to go? We gradually reduced the area of puppy pads and shifted them towards the back door, then out the back of the house. If we didn't pick up Bella's poo immediately, she would often have a scoff...apparently not uncommon in bitches. Again, we learned to praise her, play her favourite game, just to get her to learn that weeing and crapping in the right place meant fun, fun, fun. When you're down on your hands and knees clearing up in the early hours of the morning, it's hard not to go AAAARGH! Best of luck. |
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Post by gladys on Mar 14, 2014 16:44:45 GMT
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 14, 2014 19:47:25 GMT
Thanks for the replies! The advice has helped a lot. Still getting some accidents but now always on the newspaper and she has mostly stopped playing with the newspaper due to my vigilance which means that if she does go on it then it's not all over her and her pen. We're having a bit of trouble at the moment as she keeps flipping her water bowl (need to get a heavy one) and so I can't always tell if it's wee or not and I need to take her out more haha. She has also now stopped eating/playing with her poops thankfully, for the time being at least. I've caught her trying to do it before and used the "off" command and it seems to have worked wonders! (Likewise with the newspaper thing) glad to know that other bitches do it too though and that I haven't just got a poo loving weirdo haha! Thankfully she hasn't been doing the holding in pee for more rewards (although it seems like something she'd do, she's cottoned on really fast that if she doesn't something bad, I do the "off" command, she stops and gets a reward...). She now has a favourite spot that I take her to, I think my man takes her to a different bit that is woodchip but I find she always spends ages eating the woodchip and sniffing first, the bit I take her to is a small kerb of rocks in the garden bit alongside one of the buildings. There's nothing interesting there and she pees almost immediately as there is actually nothing else to do in that bit haha. The only thing is, the vet says she is now okay to go on walks, and we were out today and she wouldn't go anywhere, yet when we got back she was desperate to go to her spot in the garden to pee haha. She goes to the toilet on grass fine at puppy class but she's so excited there that she's probably desperate. I'll have to make sure to praise her loads so she can see it's as good as going in her spot and will be happy going to the loo on grass. I think she is overall getting better anyway but will be more likely to be able to fully litter train her when my man gets back from his holiday. At the moment it's only me and it's hard to manage to get her all the time. She's getting better though and always whines a little if she needs a poop and wants to go out. She doesn't let me know for a pee but we'll sort that out soon enough. Tell you what though, I wish I had an actual house with a garden! This would be so much easier if I didn't have to get dressed quickly and run down three floors with the dog in my arms each time haha (although I've never had such good exercise in my life). Can't wait till my man is home and I can have a long lie and a full nights sleep haha, just one! 
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Post by orpheous87 on Mar 14, 2014 21:19:50 GMT
Glad to hear Rosa's getting better with her toilet training.
Something that might help with the eating poop thing is adding some pineapple to her diet. It's supposed to deter dogs from eating their own poop, but I can't say whether it works or not as I haven't tried it. Pepper & Ellie will eat loads of poop outside, but it's never their own.
As for her waiting until you get back from your walk to toilet, I'm sure she'll grow out of this. I have the opposite problem - neither of my two will toilet in the garden! Well, that's half true. They won't toilet in our back garden, which is the one we use most. They will in the front garden, which is more ornamental - typical! Once you start taking her on longer walks, I expect she'll realise that if she needs to go, she'd better go outside!
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Post by gladys on Mar 14, 2014 22:38:22 GMT
smilesbetter Skala who is going to be 24 weeks old on Sunday is not doing any toileting while out either. She holds it till she gets back to the garden. Well actually that's not completely true she has gone to the toilet 3 times while out (3 separate days) and each time it was VERY cold on the field and I just think she just couldn't hold the pee any more?!? We took her to Norwich this week and she held it for 5 and a half hours, even though we spent an hour in the park. She did the biggest wee in the garden when we got home!! As orpheous said I'm pretty sure this will be something that they grow out of as they get older??
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 14, 2014 23:09:57 GMT
Haha @orpheus87 well I hope they grow out of it or gladys and I are gonna have a pair of super awkward dogs! Back to puppy class tomorrow (despite the expected 60mph+ winds!) so I'll have to keep an eye out for her toileting and give her mega praise for it and hopefully she'll begin to learn that grass is okay. Could try the pineapple, will it not make her feel ill though? |
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Post by migsy on Mar 14, 2014 23:41:59 GMT
You are doing really well smilesbetter,and no,the pineapple won't make Rosa ill,you only need to give her a little.Skip loves fruit,and hangs around when we are having fruit salad.(you will know not to give grapes or sultanas).You will be as fit as a butchers dog with all your dashing up and down stairs,or a world class sprinter! The 'off!' or 'leave!' commands are great, I use them on Skip if he is acting suspiciously lagging behind to sniff at something,especially horse poo,and you can use them from a fair distance too.
Skip is one who will only wee in the garden unless he is absolutely desperate,a bit of a pain in bad weather to have to get togged up to take him for a poo if he needs to go before dog walkies time.Oh joy!
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 15, 2014 13:38:15 GMT
Haha migsy it's strange that some dogs do that! We had puppy class today and Rosa must have held it in again as she was peeing for AGES when she finally went haha! And when we got home she went immediately when taken to her spot. I'm looking after a friends dog for a few hours now and she's the total opposite! She stopped right in the middle of the street to have one of the biggest poops I've ever seen (makes me glad Rosa is on the raw diet as hers are much smaller in proportion to body size!) quite happily, and again on some grass. She'd go anywhere outside haha. Kinda glad Rosa doesn't do it in the middle of the street like that. I get the feeling our guest would happily have went to the toilet in the middle of the road if the feeling struck her haha! Hopefully Rosa will learn to go on soil or grass (unless it happens to be in a plant pot please haha!) but not on the street haha. |
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Post by orpheous87 on Mar 15, 2014 22:03:22 GMT
No, like Migsy says, the pineapple won't make her ill. My Ellie loves fruit too and can always be found hanging around in the kitchen when we're chopping vegetables or making fruit salad! And I'm sure Rosa will eventually learn to toilet on grass or soil. A friend's son rehomed a Springer who has an odd habit of only peeing or pooping on the path! Recently she's started going on grass while we're out and gets lots of praise for it. If you make a big deal of it if/when she does go on grass, I'm sure she'll remember it and repeat the action. One of my dogs, Pepper, once pooped on the road right outside TK Maxx. We were on our way to visit a friend and had to walk through the town to get to her house, but we ended up taking a detour round the back of the shops as there was a radio roadshow in the town and Pepper was terrified of the speakers and wouldn't walk past them! Quite glad though as otherwise she'd have done it in view of a lot more people than she did! |
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When you go outside for a toilet break, don't play or have much interaction with Rosa. If the outcome is zero, take her back in, BUT, use your super power of pee/poo observance to whisk her outside! Only go happy-nuts and sing her praises when she does the business at the right spot, a nice yummy reward helps as well (but don't do this too often or she'll 'hold on' and just wee/poo a little because she'll know there's more treats coming). You're simply conditioning her to associate toileting with the bestest ever praise and rewards! Does she have a favourite 'spot' to wee in? When you clean up can you leave a piece of soiled paper where you want her to go? We gradually reduced the area of puppy pads and shifted them towards the back door, then out the back of the house. If we didn't pick up Bella's poo immediately, she would often have a scoff...apparently not uncommon in bitches. Again, we learned to praise her, play her favourite game, just to get her to learn that weeing and crapping in the right place meant fun, fun, fun. When you're down on your hands and knees clearing up in the early hours of the morning, it's hard not to go AAAARGH! Best of luck.
