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Post by andrewdillon on Feb 27, 2014 14:31:58 GMT
Surprised there isn't a Training board. This isn't a 'problem' as such - just looking for advice from anyone who's succeeded in this.
Using this advice, I've been using a Post-it to train my labrador/collie - as you'll know, both intelligent breeds. It's maybe me who isn't. Admittedly, I did change from getting her to use her nose to her paw, as there's more strength in it and she'll respond to the "Paw" command anyway.
The problem is that she isn't clear that it's the Post-it she should touch. She nudges the hand that's holding it instead. If the nudge also connects with the Post-it, I reward her, but she doesn't seem to distinguish. She's all confused now.
Sticking the Post-it on the door doesn't work - she only looks to me. Tried holding it from the other side, but she just opens the door.
I know it's me who's done this wrong, but if I start again, I'll struggle to erase from her memory what she's 'learnt' so far. If you've suceeded with this, I'd be grateful for any help you can give.
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Post by scallywag on Feb 27, 2014 15:15:53 GMT
Hi Andrew orpheous87 may be your girl, shes been doing the touch training with her 2 girls  |
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Post by orpheous87 on Feb 27, 2014 22:43:41 GMT
Hi andrewdillon, I have indeed done 'touch' training with my girls. We used the same method, although we used a disposable coffee cup lid rather than a post it note. Perhaps you could try using something bigger than a post it note at first, so that there's a bigger target for her nose? I've never taught my two to touch with their paws (yet). Another thing would be to maybe use something a bit more solid than a post-it note (i.e. a piece of cardboard or a coaster). That could be why she's not distinguishing between the two. Or you could invest in a target stick, depending on how much you think you'll use it in future. How are you holding the post it note? When I was teaching my two, I found that holding the lid between my thumb and index finger worked better because that way, my hand wasn't behind it and it should help her to distinguish between a touch of your hand and a touch of the target. The only problem I see with using the "paw" command is that she most likely already associates that word with putting her paw in your hand. So, I expect that when you're trying it with the post it note on the door and using the paw command, she's confused. If you want her to use her paw, you'll have to wait for her to make that movement rather than giving her the "paw" command, then reward her and once she's doing it reliably, pick a new word to use. I recently started teaching Ellie to put her paw on my leg, and rather than using the word "paw", I'm just holding my hand on my leg a bit higher than she'll reach so that her paw hits my leg. I'm marking this and rewarding, which is working so far. Hope this helps a bit? |
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Post by smilesbetter on Feb 28, 2014 6:49:52 GMT
You could try using the post it (or something bigger) on the floor and training her to touch it, doing it on different types of flooring if possible so she can see exactly what circus you want her to touch. Use a command like "touch it" so she doesn't mix it up with other commands. Then once she's actually touching the paper on purpose you can try it on the door using the command you use for closing the door, she'll remember that she usually touches the paper and while trying to figure out what you're asking her to do she'll most likely try touching the paper as she's done on the floor before. Reward her and get her to repeat until she's getting good and is learning the command, then remove the paper (unless you want her to always use the paper) and continue using the command for her to push the door sans paper, when she does, woohoo! She's learned to shut a door. Good idea, I'll have to train my pup to do this once she's a bit older. We'll be using a training stick I think, I can't wait to get training her properly! |
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Post by smilesbetter on Feb 28, 2014 7:15:43 GMT
Also I agree about the training board, one would be great!
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Post by zahada on Feb 28, 2014 18:45:16 GMT
Yes, its' strange that this forum doesn't have a training board. I'm sure that the old one did.
I would certainly try something on the floor to target, at least the size of a mouse mat. Once the dog is touching reliably, I would move it close to the door, then pin it to the door. And again, once the dog touches the mat reliably I would start halving the size until tiny, by which time the dog probably got the idea of what he should be doing. Good luck and I look forward to a progress report
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Post by scallywag on Feb 28, 2014 23:07:48 GMT
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Post by tonib on Feb 28, 2014 23:46:26 GMT
I suppose its missing as it doesn't quite apply to other pets in quite the same way as dogs and I think a standard format was made when the Cat & Dog forums merged into one (Your Pet) last year - doesn't mean it can't change though, if deemed suitable by the admins |
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 1, 2014 0:41:59 GMT
You can do cat training too! Mine all sit and wait on command and I'm working on getting Mieze to high five. Some respond very well to clicker training. I've been planning to get a dog for years, so I have trained the cats in the meantime.
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Post by BorderTerrier on Mar 2, 2014 20:19:36 GMT
I am in he process of teaching Earl to touch my palm on command. I am naming it 'touch'. I have trained this by using food of course, as Earl is a real foodie. Its quite hard sometimes however, as he would rather lick or nibble the food that nudge it!
Maybe try pointing to the Post-It, with your finger very close to it. Getting as close as you can to IT will make her pay more attention to it if she is glued to YOU.
If I raise my palm to Earl for him to touch, he will high five me instead as well! Even if I put it right close to his nose he will somehow find a way to fit his paw in. Its taking some time and I am also interesting in the advice you receive on this topic, as I will also attempt to apply it to Earl and I as well.
You could always smear a tiny bit of cheese etc on the Post-It, and point to it. She should pay attention to it therefore go to smell it. This will bring her nose toward the Post-It and literally as her nose touches it, praise verbally (this will make her turn to you before licking the Post-It etc) and reward her with a treat/toy etc if this works for you two.
Remember to continue using her favourite and most happily received reward every time she does it correctly.
I wish you success, and will be personally keeping a close eye on this thread, any further replies and your progress.
I would love a training board on this forum! I am surprised there isn't already one.
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Post by orpheous87 on Mar 2, 2014 20:26:56 GMT
I am in he process of teaching Earl to touch my palm on command. I am naming it 'touch'. I have trained this by using food of course, as Earl is a real foodie. Its quite hard sometimes however, as he would rather lick or nibble the food that nudge it! Just to check BT - you have got the food in the opposite hand to the one you're asking Earl to touch, haven't you? i.e. food in right hand, left held out for Earl to touch When we were first learning, both Pepper & Ellie tried to get the food from my right hand, so I would put it behind my back. They would then try all sorts to get the food, including sit, paw etc., but they would only be marked and rewarded when their nose touched my hand/the lid we were using. If Earl loses interest in your hand, move it, but don't move it towards him. He needs to figure it out on his own that you want him to use his nose to touch your hand. |
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 2, 2014 21:10:36 GMT
Is there any way we could get a training forum on this? Would be great and I have plenty experience so would love to be able to give advice on it as well as get some tips for bringing up Rosa!
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Post by charlottte on Mar 2, 2014 23:11:51 GMT
I taught jasper to close the living room door using targeting (with a post it note) but using his nose as I didn't want him to scratch the door. I've also taught him to cross his paws, tap my feet with his feet and do a finish for Rally using post its. We like targeting! I just skimmed the post but have you tried using a marker? Such as a clicker or a short, snappy word such as 'yes' to mark the correct behaviour and let the dog know that there's food coming. I started off with sticking the post it note to my hand and getting him to touch it in my hand. Usually when you show dogs something novel, they'll try and investigate it. I didn't click and reward for anything other than what I wanted, I just ignored that behaviour and waited I then transferred it to the door and used a bit of shaping. Clicked/Marked for looking at the post it, then marked movement towards the post it, then a quick nose touch (or paw touch if you use paw), then held off for longer to increase the amount of time he was in contact with the post it. Eventually I only marked and rewarded when he was putting enough force to get the door closed completely. It might have confused your dog if you changed what you wanted in the middle of training so using something that looks different (for example a piece of cardboard cut into a circle/triangle etc) might help as already mentioned by Orpheous  I was going to say Pringles lids are good for targeting but as you'll need to fade the target eventually, that could be awkward with something so solid. I know I've mentioned nosing targets but the principle is the same. Clicker is really good for getting precise behaviours so even if she is just giving you a paw to begin with, tht would be the start of the 'paw touch behaviour'. However don't cue her to paw, as that way she might see pawing the post it as just an extension of the learned behaviour. Or as Orpheous mentioned, try holding the paper by your finger and thumb and reward for her trying to touch it that way as your hand won't be in contact at all then. I should also say that now this is Jaspers trick if he wants attention. He will nose the door open and closed if you haven't noticed that he wants to be let into the garden after about 3 seconds lol I really hope this makes sense as it's late and I've gone a bit fuzzy headed from working and Uni work! |
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Post by smilesbetter on Mar 3, 2014 11:37:32 GMT
Totally agree with the use of clicker training for this. I've been doing clicker training with Rosa and it's fantastic, as otherwise she just forgets what she's done for the reward as soon as the treat comes out. With the "click" she at least associates the behaviour with the reward |
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Post by BorderTerrier on Mar 3, 2014 15:52:46 GMT
I am in he process of teaching Earl to touch my palm on command. I am naming it 'touch'. I have trained this by using food of course, as Earl is a real foodie. Its quite hard sometimes however, as he would rather lick or nibble the food that nudge it! Just to check BT - you have got the food in the opposite hand to the one you're asking Earl to touch, haven't you? i.e. food in right hand, left held out for Earl to touch When we were first learning, both Pepper & Ellie tried to get the food from my right hand, so I would put it behind my back. They would then try all sorts to get the food, including sit, paw etc., but they would only be marked and rewarded when their nose touched my hand/the lid we were using. If Earl loses interest in your hand, move it, but don't move it towards him. He needs to figure it out on his own that you want him to use his nose to touch your hand. I started out placing the food between my forefinger and middle finger to attract Earl towards the hand. He wouldn't have understood without it! But yes, I am now putting the food reward behind my back (Earl is always suspicious about what I have got when my hands are behind my back!) and encouraging him to touch the palm I am holding out. |
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