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Post by Weims on Apr 7, 2013 15:35:51 GMT
If only more people new how to use things like this properly, the would be far less damage done to dogs! I think it was Loz who showed me this video first (ages ago)?
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Post by orpheous87 on Apr 7, 2013 15:50:08 GMT
I should show this to a man we meet regularly. He has two Border Terriers and a Whippet. Apparently the male Border chased and brought down a sheep the other week (but it was okay because he knew the farmer apparently). Now he's waiting for a man to bring him a shock collar so that he can use it on the dog. He's planning to put the collar on the dog, let it see the sheep and possibly chase it. Then he'll 'zap it' and the dog will "think the sheep has done it". Am I the only one thinking that his logic is flawed?
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Post by CurlyCub on Apr 7, 2013 15:50:40 GMT
I agree with you Weims, you sometimes hear of terrible stories where owners have hurt their dogs with shock collars!
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Post by CurlyCub on Apr 7, 2013 15:52:38 GMT
Now he's waiting for a man to bring him a shock collar so that he can use it on the dog. He's planning to put the collar on the dog, let it see the sheep and possibly chase it. Then he'll 'zap it' and the dog will "think the sheep has done it". Am I the only one thinking that his logic is flawed? That's terrible, I think some people need a reality check...
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Post by Weims on Apr 7, 2013 16:01:19 GMT
I should show this to a man we meet regularly. He has two Border Terriers and a Whippet. Apparently the male Border chased and brought down a sheep the other week (but it was okay because he knew the farmer apparently). Now he's waiting for a man to bring him a shock collar so that he can use it on the dog. He's planning to put the collar on the dog, let it see the sheep and possibly chase it. Then he'll 'zap it' and the dog will "think the sheep has done it". Am I the only one thinking that his logic is flawed? Ugh, when will people learn! Reward based training all the way for me! Our old neighbors had two Jack Russells and an electric barrier (the dogs wear a collar so when they go near the fence it gives them an electric shock) and they said their dog had died of heart failure. I'm pretty sure the two things were related.
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Post by orpheous87 on Apr 7, 2013 16:24:42 GMT
Same here Weims! Other than this little revelation, he seems like he understands dogs well, and his dogs are always under control - but perhaps now we know why (although I would hope he doesn't routinely use a shock collar considering he doesn't own one)! Oh the poor thing I would be inclined to think the same as you. I listened to an interview with a woman from Wales whose husband had been talked into getting one of the barrier fences and a shock collar for their husky by a neighbour whose bitch was in season. She came home one day, without knowing he'd had the electric barrier put in, and she called the husky to come and greet her. When it got to the barrier, it got trapped between the two currents and couldn't go one way or the other. She had to physically go and drag the dog out of the barrier. Then when her husband came out to see what was going on, she gave him the collar and made him attempt to cross the barrier to pick up the post she'd dropped when the dog had started screaming. The shock he received apparently brought her husband to his knees and he was horrified at what the dog had just gone through. He'd been told by the neighbour that the shock would just be a little 'stimulation' like a static shock or something. It makes you wonder how many people genuinely don't realise what could happen - I know that Bextull and Oscar had a similar unfortunate experience.
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Post by charlottte on Apr 7, 2013 18:36:24 GMT
There's a one of these for Rattle Cans too. Love these videos. And the logic behind shock collars is ridiculous. Say your dog is chasing a sheep, and you shock as it sees a sheep, but a plane goes overhead at the same time. Your dog might actually associate shock with the plane and cause a complete phobia of planes. There, you've just made 2 problems and difficulties for your dog. Also dogs may generalise shocks around the neck to being touched all over, possibly making a dog fearful of touch. There, a 3rd (possibly dangerous) problem. And if the dog realises that the owner is the source of the shocks, there, the dog may now be fearful of the owners. Also, most people start the dog off on the lowest setting as they think that they're being more ethical than ramping it up to the top voltage. Only dogs get used to positive punishment so it will get used to the lowest shock after say, 10 shocks. So the owner takes it to level 2, then 3 etc as the dog habituates to the pain and the effect wears off. Sort of like a teacher saying 'quiet' to a class and it working, then the class get louder and louder until that teacher has to scream to get the kids to be quiet. It would probably be more ethical to use it on the highest setting in the beginning as although its painful the dog has had to be subject to less shocks. I don't agree with them AT all and think they should be banned. There's no use for abusive methods in modern training. All scientific evidence proves this. Aversives, very rarely, but that's a different kettle of fish. I can't understand how anyone that loves their dogs can condone the use of something that is going to purposefully cause harm to the dog. Sorry for the rant, very passionate about positive training
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Post by petitsfilous on Apr 7, 2013 20:03:37 GMT
I just love this video! Absolutely brilliant! Positive reward based training all the way
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longhope
Settling in well!
Posts: 63
Pets I own: Parsons Russell Terrier puppy, previously owned an English Springer Spaniel.
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Post by longhope on Apr 7, 2013 22:34:55 GMT
I should show this to a man we meet regularly. He has two Border Terriers and a Whippet. Apparently the male Border chased and brought down a sheep the other week (but it was okay because he knew the farmer apparently). Now he's waiting for a man to bring him a shock collar so that he can use it on the dog. He's planning to put the collar on the dog, let it see the sheep and possibly chase it. Then he'll 'zap it' and the dog will "think the sheep has done it". Am I the only one thinking that his logic is flawed? You are very right Orpheous, once the dog is in full flight (s)he'll take no notice of the collar. There is a time and a place for these devices and should only be used under supervision & training. We used one for the PJRT we had last year, she had a severe dog on dog aggression issues and was the last resort by our dog trainer. The collars have both an electric shock and an audible warning, we found the audible warning worked only for so long before the shock had to be re-employed. The trick was to give a warning at the earliest moment there is an issue with the dog becoming aggressive.
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longhope
Settling in well!
Posts: 63
Pets I own: Parsons Russell Terrier puppy, previously owned an English Springer Spaniel.
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Post by longhope on Apr 7, 2013 22:53:50 GMT
Now I've watched the video, yes I agree use just in the name of training is not warranted. But, there are times when all other positive training will not be enough. In my case the dog should not have been rehomed, we had trouble finding a trainer to take her on and the one who did said she was the worse case he'd ever seen. Unfortunately, even after all the work we put in to turn her aggression round, we had to take that awful decision to have her put to sleep.
In defence of the collar we had managed to walk her without the collar and muzzle. The big but is that on escaping she would savage what ever dog she came up on.
I noted a comment about owner having to wind up the power, this in our case was not true. We started at the highest level just to get a response then able to use it at lower levels as maintenance, using the audible frequently as a reminder to obtain acceptable behaviour.
Personally I didn't like using it, but needs must. The puppy we have will never see such a device, but then she is a wonderful dog with a good up-bringing.
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Post by johnl on Apr 11, 2013 11:25:06 GMT
They are banned here in Wales...
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Post by BorderTerrier on Apr 11, 2013 11:31:46 GMT
I should show this to a man we meet regularly. He has two Border Terriers and a Whippet. Apparently the male Border chased and brought down a sheep the other week (but it was okay because he knew the farmer apparently). Now he's waiting for a man to bring him a shock collar so that he can use it on the dog. He's planning to put the collar on the dog, let it see the sheep and possibly chase it. Then he'll 'zap it' and the dog will "think the sheep has done it". Am I the only one thinking that his logic is flawed? Nah, his logic is flawed Not good.
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