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Post by gladys on Jul 16, 2013 14:58:34 GMT
Ok so this isn't a big problem but would like to know your thoughts.  Cooper as some of you will know is a Play Monster. Doesn't matter the size or sex of the dog as long as they play Cooper is happy. Before all the problems we have had with dogs going for him, he greeted all dog happily on lead and after a sniff he would go in to a play bow and if they wanted to play off they would go. Since the attacks (want for a better word) I have to be careful who he meets on lead. We can get about 3 seconds of sniffing and then sometimes hackles will raise on neck and I call him away. If I don't he will just tell the other dog off, it's not aggression just "I don't like you go away". Anyway I'm teaching him to say hello nicely and then I call him away for a treat, it seems to be working.
Yesterday at agility he met a new male dog (his better with females) while both on lead. He had a sniff but as soon as the dog was between me and him I saw his hackles start to rise. So I dropped the lead, moved to the side and called him to me. He came and was treated.After agility he had mad play with his friend a female Border Collie, if he gets to rough she tells him and then carry on playing. The lady with the new male dog kept him on lead and as Cooper was off lead he went up to get him to join in but I noticed he has forgotten to do the slow invite for play to new dogs. He just went charging in and acted like he does with the Collie. Which of course the male dog didn't like and told Cooper off, so I called him away and he went and found his female friend instead. So my question is this - Can I teach him good manners? Can I teach him how to do the whole polite with new dogs thing or is that something dogs have to sort out amongst themselves? The reason I'm asking is the new dogs owner wants them to play off lead next week and I'm a bit worried what will happen. Yes Cooper is happier off lead and will play all day with other dogs but this dog is male, new and Cooper plays rough. Thanks for reading and So SORRY it's a long winded essay.  |
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Post by scallywag on Jul 16, 2013 16:17:23 GMT
Not long winded, and also a good read, it highlites certain points. I have no advice here, but what I can say re Beau is that if he is approached by a dog off lead, he feels threatened for obvious reasons, but apparently in Kennels he is very good with other dogs when they are all together off lead. The other dog may just have been feeling like that? could be totally different when off lead ! Good luck gladys |
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Post by BorderTerrier on Jul 16, 2013 16:24:48 GMT
Hello gladys, You can teach dogs good manners. I have tort Earl manners since a puppy! I have Earl a slip lead, so well it is in the correct place just under the chin, I can simply tweak the lead upwards when Earl starts behaving inappropriately or 'in-the-face-of-others' and he will stop by the gentle pressure put on by the lead. If you don't have a slip lead, using basic obedience training will get you somewhere |
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Post by gladys on Jul 16, 2013 16:48:27 GMT
Thanks scallywag So do you think off lead they will communicate better and either play or get away from each other? BorderTerrier I not really talking about approaching other dogs on lead as I'm dealing with that. I'm talking about off lead manners. Also I don't own a slip lead as they aren't really advised as a training aid on Brachycephalic breeds. |
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Post by BorderTerrier on Jul 16, 2013 16:51:40 GMT
Thanks scallywag So do you think off lead they will communicate better and either play or get away from each other? BorderTerrier I not really talking about approaching other dogs on lead as I'm dealing with that. I'm talking about off lead manners. Also I don't own a slip lead as they aren't really advised as a training aid on Brachycephalic breeds. All breed to their own  I would think that if Cooper understands the rules on lead he won't forget them off-lead either. You need persistency and one day that penny will drop for him. |
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Post by charlottte on Jul 16, 2013 17:03:53 GMT
On lead and off lead are very different. I think you're dealing with it very well already by calling him away. Dogs can be selective with their playmates (jasper is VERY selective) and Cooper already sounds like he has good play manners as he understands the female collie when things get a bit heated. Was it a male dog that attacked him? It could be that he's just less confident with certain dogs. He might learn to trust the male dog after a while I personally wouldn't push him to play (I know you wouldn't, but the other owner may insist) as if he's not confident with this dog, it could cause more generalised issues and you've worked really hard to get him where he is now! Keep on the few second meets until Cooper learns that the dog isn't a threat Good luck hopefully it will just take time |
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Post by gladys on Jul 16, 2013 18:27:01 GMT
Thanks charlottte I was hoping you would read this thread. Yeah the dogs that have gone for him have all been male. Since then he has played off lead with male dogs and he does seem to back off when told off by them. He never shows sign of aggression. I don't think I will push this off lead play next week but I would like to know what can be done when two dogs meet off lead? The other week we met an owner with a Boston and a Frenchie who were on holiday in the area, I left Cooper off lead but spoke to the lady about him being full on. She was happy for them to sort it out and Cooper went straight into rough bouncy play with the Frenchie, he told Cooper off and then they found a happy medium to play. When Cooper is off lead and a dog comes over I never know what to do for the best, stay off lead and hope all goes well or put on lead and get Cooper to leave?? I know it's wrong but I did pick him up the other day as I had two unknown dogs racing towards us, both male and of the breed that has attacked before. Later on the same dogs raced towards another owner and dog who just did a high pitch "Hello whos this" and all the dogs bounced around each other and then went on there own ways. That's how Cooper use to be but I'm scared to just try it again!!! |
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Post by charlottte on Jul 16, 2013 19:47:51 GMT
Glad to know my opinion is appreciated  It's a hard one, while cooper is ok on lead some dogs aren't :/ Reading the dogs would be one way to go. If you think it's getting a bit too heated and they look tense then mention it to the other owner and move away. At the end of the day I'm sure they wouldn't want a scuffle! You know Cooper best so if you think he's stressing then move away from the situation but if he looks like he's going into crazy play monster mode then just keep an eye on the play He sounds like he has good social skills, just isn't 100% with male dogs. With good reason! I think I would have picked jasper up as well if I'd been in that situation. Especially as it was the breed that attacked him before. They worry you! What I tend to do if I see a bouncy dog (or if it comes over and gets in Jasper's face) is just to walk away, if I need to put him on lead I do. If the dog follows then I'll walk it back to the owner and say that he's not good with other dogs. I've also heard of people throwing a handful if treats on the floor to distract a dog that is harassing theirs as a last resort while they move away. There is then the argument of the dog being possibly allergic to the treats, but then the other owner should have control of their dog. I'd say to keep on as you're going. Be cautious and the meet an greets will help build his confidence if you can meet pleasant male dogs on and off lead, he'll learn that not all males are bad. Rewards in the presence of male dogs will also sweeten the deal  I'll look more into it though, and get back to you |
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Post by gladys on Jul 17, 2013 9:18:43 GMT
Glad to know my opinion is appreciated I'll look more into it though, and get back to you Thanks charlottte Yes I do really appreciate your opinion and would be great if you find something in your notes/books but please don't put yourself out. The main thing is Cooper has forgotten to introduce himself to new dogs politely off lead. Thanks again. I also would like to hear what others think about it so please feel free to continue to post. I do feel I can read Cooper quite well but I guess my confidence has gone a little since other dogs have made him weary. I will say that he is wonderful with puppies on and off lead. Very gentle. We met the cutest 16 week old male Pug called Oscar the other week and the pup was jumping all over Cooper. They were both on lead and Cooper went in to a play bow and did a calm Boston Bitey play but didn't go over board, he just took himself away when the pup got to much for him.  And he also tones it down with my friends young female cross breed off lead. |
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Post by scallywag on Jul 17, 2013 9:58:56 GMT
gladys you sound like ME LOL I have no confidence when big dogs approach Beau and me. specially when off lead. In fact I have also been known to turn round and go back. He is good off lead with others but if he is on lead he can be known to snap if they get in his face too much. Good luck and like charlottte said don't push Cooper and undo all that you have achieved. Maybe it will be down to you to chose who he can and can't play with, monitor the other dog first maybe ?
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Post by gladys on Jul 17, 2013 10:02:36 GMT
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Post by scallywag on Jul 17, 2013 10:08:32 GMT
Your welcome, and the thing is, we are supposed to be enjoying our pets, and not putting ourselves under pressure to do what others think is right, when we are not comfortable. Just go with your instincts learn to know what situations to avoid, relax or your anxiety will travel down the lead, I have to check myself from doing just that LOL x Most of all tiny steps one by one x |
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Post by gladys on Jul 21, 2013 16:56:04 GMT
Well I still have no idea what I'm going to do tomorrow at agility (let Cooper meet this male dog off lead after session) but we have had a couple of great days meeting new dogs. Thursdays night at our dog club Rally he played ON LEAD with a MALE Weimaraner, he was only 8 months old but HUGE!! He backed off when Cooper did his full on play but Cooper then toned it down and did a play bow and bark instead. They then played a little bitey face and bark until the Weimaraner forgot how big it was and his huge paw hit Cooper right on the middle of his back. The own then said right enough before you hurt him. Cooper was fine just got out the way and then looked at me to say "Look mum I was a good boy". Then on Friday night after an hours walk we were resting on the village green after a play and a big dog started racing towards us, as it's the type of dog that has gone for him (so Cooper is weary) I told Cooper to leave and wait (he was off lead) and I stood up and told the dog to go. Which he did and instead played with two Cav King Chars that had just come on the field. Then the 2 CKC's headed towards us, as they were small and I saw they were friendly with the big dog I just stayed sitting and let Cooper go over and say hello, which he did very nicely (remembered not to go straight in to a mad Boston play). They then all came over to us, I ended up with one of them on my lap, Cooper continued to be non bouncy and even tried to give one of them his ball. Cooper did get a little bit bouncy but when the dog backed away he calmed down again. Then the owner came over to say sorry, I had one on my lap again by this point licking my chin. She then took them away. A good end of the week result. |
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Post by scallywag on Jul 21, 2013 17:17:50 GMT
Great, a good result, and Cooper seems to be learning what he likes and what he is not comfortable with. But gladys I think you should also get the praise, you did not panic, so cooper did not pick up on any negativity and all was fine. I think tomorrow, rather than worry, just take it as it comes and read the situation. You know Coopers body language better than anyone else, he will let you know if he is not happy ( I hope )  |
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Post by gladys on Jul 22, 2013 10:27:47 GMT
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And he also tones it down with my friends young female cross breed off lead.
