|
Post by orpheous87 on Apr 19, 2013 21:19:52 GMT
As some of you know, Ellie has had another bad bout of diarrhoea again this week. We had another trip to the vets, and again they confirmed that there is no blockage, but couldn't tell me what the problem actually was other than it could be whatever she picks up on walks irritating her stomach.
So. I don't want to muzzle her. I want to try and develop an absolutely rock solid 'leave it!' command.
As the things she likes to pick up most are cooked bones (that always seem to find their way out onto the paths), would it be completely stupid of me to get a cooked bone and use it to train her? I'm thinking of using the method that Bextull described in my 'eating stones' thread and gradually adding other things that she picks up on our walks as I'm not sure how else I'd be able to train her to leave everything when I tell her to.
Does anyone have any other ideas of how to do it? Suggestions are definitely welcome!
|
|
|
Post by gladys on Apr 19, 2013 22:30:05 GMT
The only thing I can say is what worked for Cooper and I. Start small. Low value treats to leave and when she does treat with a better value treat. Build this up to leaving the high value treats. I can put anything in front of Cooper now and he wont touch until I say 'ok'. He will also leave whatever food he finds on walks, even chips and he LOVES chips!! Once this is mastered in the house try in the garden and then out on walks. Every time you change place you might have to go back to less value treats to begin with. Like I said this is only from what I have done with Cooper but this is from a puppy and not working with an adult who is getting rewards from not leaving exciting things on walks. But if you teach her that a leave will result in a high value treat that you have with you (at all times) then hopefully she will get the idea??
|
|
|
Post by Jessie99 on Apr 20, 2013 0:46:57 GMT
I hope Ellie is okay soon! Well, Charlie Boy has always had a good 'leave' command and won't eat something without my permission and if he does, he will stop when I ask/tell him to, so that's good. However, Roman used to and still does (very, very rarely) have small aggression issues with leaving a favourite toy or something that he isn't supposed to eat. He would give small but aggressive growls and guard right over the toy or bone that he ha found on walks or something and protect it while giving a little growl and staying quite tense and still. He would guard the toy or bone until I couldn't see it. To train him out of this habit I started taking both his favourite toy and some small, easily/quickly chewed training treats when out on walks - I still do this now even though I don't have to. I will give him one or the other and when I ask him to leave lets say the I ask him to leave the ball I will hold up the treat while asking him to do this and as soon as he drops that all or other toy or whatever your dog has, I click and reward. It didn't take long for him to teach, but you might want to start in the garden and house like I did and start using the same reward. For example if your going to use a ball instead of a treat, try trading a treat for a ball because then Ellie will learn to leave food when out on walks. So just keep doing that and making it harder with like a line of treats and stuff in the garden or something Good luck, of course you don't have to use the clicker technique but it certainly easier for the dog when there will be so many distractions and temptations going on in the exercise. Make it a game. Some people use the command for this techniques 'trade for treat' in a high pitched voice or 'swapsies' or something similar just whatever works for you Sorry for the essay and good luck
|
|
longhope
Settling in well!
Posts: 63
Pets I own: Parsons Russell Terrier puppy, previously owned an English Springer Spaniel.
|
Post by longhope on Apr 20, 2013 21:10:22 GMT
We're being taught the same thing as Gladys explained, the trick is not to allow the dog to have the treat that was put on the floor. Lotty hasn't got it yet, so I'm pleased to hear that it does work after a while.
|
|
|
Post by Jessie99 on Apr 20, 2013 23:48:50 GMT
I have tried that technique and it does work and is effective after a while but my dogs like to be having lots of fun all the time even in serious training, etc so I prefer the technique I mentioned because then I can make a proper game out of it for my dogs .
|
|
|
Post by teegiebear on Apr 21, 2013 11:23:32 GMT
Aw no Hope Ellie is back to feeling better soon. Enzo has a habit of sniffing and licking everything but it started he wanted to try eat everything when out on walks. Especially if the wind catches it he's off chasing it. Positive reinforcement with treats works for me, he's a greedy Labrador. Use the leave it command and reward. Dont let ellie ignore you and show her, push away from the item and say command again and reward. If u have someone to help you have them to have hold of her lead if she's a bit away from you and say leave it and if she ignores first command then the helper can use the lead to reinforce the command. Does this make sence? I'm trying to explain how it's worked with Enzo. Definitely all about rewarding for leaving and then once she understands the command the treats can be phased out that sometimes its a treat sometimes its a cuddle or a play or something else. Just make us you have treats she really likes. I make liver cake coz I know my two especially Enzo will work for it and he gets so excited and scatter brained about other dogs but at training classes he will focus on it an even when he had his friend Toby the jack Russell jumping over him who he loves to play with he was doing heel work off the lead and completely ignored him coz he thought he would get some of his beloved liver cake Stick at it. You'll get there!
|
|
|
Post by McCuddles on Apr 21, 2013 19:14:13 GMT
Poor Ellie, hope she is feeling better soon Dotty learned the 'leave it' command at her training classes. We would clip them on leash, then throw treat to floor in front. We would then walk past and if they showed any interest just guide them gently away whilst saying 'leave it'. As soon as they turned their head away from treat they would instantly be rewarded with high value treat. And repeat! What our trainer said was to treat the object you threw down as if it was poison or something really bad, ie something they were NEVER allowed to have (not just delayed but never allowed to have). We continued this training at home, leash in kitchen walking up and down pretending as if poison but she always got rewarded for leaving, cheese or hot dog etc. eventually she would leave anything I said, even on walks which was good as she went through a phase of eating poop too. Also I learned through time and experience to differentiate her sniffing, ie sniffing between fox poo/dog poop/rotten food or just sniffing other dogs pee/different scents. I can only imagine though how hard it must be to keep tabs on two off leash dogs so I wish you the best of luck!
|
|
|
Post by orpheous87 on Apr 21, 2013 19:29:59 GMT
Thanks for all the ideas! Ellie is much better now and has had her normal meals this weekend. She does understand the leave it command, and she is normally very good. It's only occasionally that she'll pick something up and not let go of it. Yesterday she ate a feather (never done that before)! We learnt it during training classes, and the method we used was to hold a treat in a closed fist and wait until the dog didn't try to get the treat out of our fist before praising them and letting them have the treat. We then progressed to putting a treat on the floor just out of reach, waiting until they stopped trying to get to it and then praising them and giving them the treat. But I'm not sure that it's a strong enough method now.
I'll definitely try some of your methods out, because it would be nice to know that she will leave absolutely anything I tell her to.
|
|
|
Post by teegiebear on Apr 21, 2013 20:59:56 GMT
Good luck, each dog is different and you'll know your dog and find a way that works for you x
|
|
|
Post by Jessie99 on Apr 21, 2013 21:56:14 GMT
Roman is like that sometimes as well @orpheous I personally think that in Roman's case it is just pure greed because he is for certain a very greedy dog anyway, he is stubborn too and although he completely understands 'leave it' sometimes if he finds something tasty he won't leave it (which is where is stubborness comes in - he is already a hard dog to train because he is quite stubborn and over-excited) and if I did try and take it from him he sometimes gives a warning snarl/growl. This very rarely happens now though . - Maybe if people didn't litter on the floor then things like this wouldn't blooming happen!
|
|