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Post by poppydog on May 17, 2013 18:12:04 GMT
Hello!
I wonder if you could give me some advice. I have a super 3 year old Border terrier bitch called Poppy. He's fantastic in 99% of situations, she plays really well with other dogs. She goes to day care with a good mix of other digs and other than the odd tussle, she behaves beautifully. but, she had a friend who is a full-on but very submissive neutered male Patterdale called Spike. She loved him and they played fantastically well together. Until, he P'd her off.
He was hurt/upset by a big Rottie pup and was hiding under a log and shivering. We all went to look for Spike, and when Poppy found him, he attacked her. She obviously reacted back and I had to separate them. No injuries, all noise and teeth.
Now, I understand why he attacked, he was hurt/upset/scared etc.
But, Poppy doesn't and she's really upset with him. She won't forgive him for going for her and every time she sees him she goes for him. I avoid him at all costs at the moment, but living in a village, we do run into him sometimes and at the moment I cross the road and quickly move her along as she shouts at him.
Is there anything that I can do, or, is she basically going to hate him forever?
Your advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks, Rhian
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Post by Avansa on May 17, 2013 18:19:02 GMT
Hi, and welcome to the forum  It's really unfortunate that this has happened, and it must be pretty upsetting for everyone involved. Sadly, avoiding Spike and especially crossing the road when you see him is going to make the problem worse and you'll be reinforcing to Poppy that he's a scary dog and that she shouldn't like him. If I were in this situation, I would probably arrange with Spikes owners to go on a walk together, on lead, and just walk the dogs near each other but don't force them to stand side to side and don't let them get into a head-to-head situation. Eventually, hopefully, as they go about their own business they will become more relaxed with each other and slowly build up both of their confidence again. Good luck, I really hope that you can get this sorted |
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Post by BorderTerrier on May 17, 2013 18:31:12 GMT
Hi, welcome to the forum, I also have a Border Terrier! If i was in your shoes, I would bring the dogs together at a distance but in view of each other. I would build it up slowly and gradually and eventually they will be happier together. Dogs aren't supposed to hold grudges, but obviously in this case, its not a 'grudge' being held, its a 'memory' being held by Poppy. How is Spike with Poppy? Is it JUST Poppy who is 'off' Spike or vise versa? I agree with Avansa; avoiding the other dog (and the two dogs, or just one dog has seen the other/seen each other) is just reinforcing the negatives about Spike to Poppy. This isn't what you want. You want them to be friends, obviously. So this isn't the best of ideas... I would just go and at least walk past Spike with Poppy so Poppy doesn't think that Spike is even worse than she's already thinking!! THE BEST of luck from me  |
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Post by charlottte on May 17, 2013 18:39:06 GMT
You could also do some counter conditioning. Every time you go out take some tasty treats and as soon as you see Spike -feed feed feed until he passes and as soon as he goes out of sight, stop feeding. She should associate the sight of him with tasty treats. Make sure she has positive associations around him The othe thing you could do would be some distance, when you see Spike, watch Poppy and if she offers a displacement behaviour (lip lick/head turn/sniff ground) turn and walk the opposite way. She's obviously not comfortable with Spike (understanday) and sounds quite stressed out by his presence. After a few trials you should be able to get closer to him without her reacting. Every time she barks at Spike and he goes passed she'll learn that barking makes him go away so it will be reinforced so it will occur more often. This is obviously quite difficult to put into practice in everyday situations but will help her realise that he's not as scary as she thinks. I hope she's alright |
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Post by poppydog on May 17, 2013 19:16:49 GMT
Hello All,
Thank you So much for answering me.
You all offer great advice and I shall give it a go.
Re Spike behaviour to Pops, he growls or snarls and then turns back on her.
I'm relieved to know that grudges are not a pattern so hopefully we can get it sorted. I'm actually fine with them not being best buddies as long as Pops doesn't get so distressed when she sees him, I'll be happy.
Thanks again! :-)
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Post by CollieSlave on May 17, 2013 21:38:58 GMT
Some jolly good advice here. Could I just add something. Do not rush things, be prepared to take a good deal of time over the counter conditioning: it is easy (only too easy!) to think that there has been an improvement and all will be well. Poppy was obviously deeply affected by the experience and is fearful of Spike and she will need time to be convinced that he is not a threat (and, as Charlotte says) LOTS of treats! (Hopefully she will come to think "Wow, I hope we'll see Spike today so I get stuffed with lots of lovely treats!"). Make sure you use very tasty treats - the treats need to be good enough to offset her fear of Spike! Especially beware of trying to bring them close (or closer) together too quickly - or you might find that one step forwards means a whole lot of steps back. Good luck!
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Post by poppydog on May 17, 2013 22:02:20 GMT
Thanks CollieSlave. I will take it easy. Might be a good time to bring out the big guns and take some chicken!! :-) thanks all, I shall let you know how we get on.  |
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Post by poppydog on May 29, 2013 17:37:31 GMT
Hi folks,
Thought that I would give you an update. We have started the counter measures between Poppy and Spike and today they managed to spend the afternoon together at day care. Pops was quite agitated but between super treats and ability to retreat to a crate for protected quiet time every now and again they ended up snoozing together at opposite ends of a sofa!!
Now am not counting chickens, but I do think that with all of your help and advice and some hard work, we are making some progress. :-)
Thanks all,
Rhian
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Post by Avansa on May 29, 2013 17:45:10 GMT
Congratulations, that all sounds really promising Glad that things are going well for you! |
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Post by charlottte on May 29, 2013 17:48:38 GMT
That's brilliant! Keep up the good work! She's evidently a lot more relaxed if she's willing to snooze with him. Glad to hear its going well  |
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Post by BorderTerrier on May 29, 2013 17:55:37 GMT
That's great poppydog! Glad things are picking up for you, it must be wonderful and you must have a lovely feeling inside... hope it continues to swim so smoothly |
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Post by poppydog on May 29, 2013 19:19:37 GMT
Thanks all. I have to say I'm incredibly proud of her. She's being very brave and thank God for the border terrier chicken obsession. It seems that that cuts through all evils, even small black dogs called Spike!
:-D
All of your advice has been brilliant and whilst I'm mindful, as you said, this will take time and we may have some set backs along the way, today, big success!! And we shall take those and celebrate them :-)
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Post by BorderTerrier on May 30, 2013 11:29:57 GMT
Thanks all. I have to say I'm incredibly proud of her. She's being very brave and thank God for the border terrier chicken obsession. It seems that that cuts through all evils, even small black dogs called Spike! :-D All of your advice has been brilliant and whilst I'm mindful, as you said, this will take time and we may have some set backs along the way, today, big success!! And we shall take those and celebrate them :-) Ohh yep, ohh yep, I'm well used to that... and cheese?  I am glad our advice has been a help to you, enjoy celebrating  |
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Post by gladys on May 30, 2013 11:33:32 GMT
Glad to hear it's going well. Would love to see some photos of Poppy, I really like the one in your avatar. |
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Post by BorderTerrier on Jun 2, 2013 15:13:58 GMT
Yes, photos would be lovely poppydog if you could bring some up here  |
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