Posts: 99
Animals I love: Cats, dogs, birds, all wildlife with possible exception of larger sharks Pets I own: Cat Hugo, Russian Blue
Dog Panda, Poodle / King Charles Cross
Also resident: possums, wallabies, kookaburras and magpies, and many other small marsupials and birds.
Panda at 13 weeks likes beef, chicken, turkey mince, chicken necks, any meat raw, but people are telling me this is not a balanced diet for puppies. I've tried good quality complete food kibble (3 types), good quality canned puppy food (3 types) and adding a supplement called divetalact. It's no thanks to all of those, so I'm at a loss to know how to provide the vitamins, minerals and fibre she is supposed to have. I also tried mixing the meat with rice and pumpkin. Her view is this spoils the meat and she walks away. Help!
Hi jassycat1, only just seeing this. Have you been feeding Panda a raw diet or have you been experimenting?
I've not fed a puppy a raw diet (yet) but I know that it can be the best diet for them if it agrees with them. I'm not sure of what's available in Australia(?) in terms of complete foods, but I would certainly recommend trying a complete pre-made food for puppies if you can get one.
If not, providing you follow the 80/10/10 rule of 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% off (of which 5% must be liver), you can't go wrong. I would also recommend joining some raw feeding groups on facebook if you're on there. There's lots of advice to be had on there and lots of people who've raw fed puppies, even down to weaning them onto raw food.
Some people don't think you should raw feed a puppy because it'll lead to them growing too fast, or something like that but I believe the opposite is true. They grow at a slower rate, meaning things develop better and stronger especially in large breed puppies (obviously not the case for you). I fully intend to raw feed my next puppy and will be starting with a complete puppy food and then hopefully moving onto the DIY way of feeding.
Supplementing the food with fruit and veggies is a personal choice I think. There are differing views on it - some people are dead against it and some people think it adds to the diet. I don't often feed fruit or veggies with their food, but they do get them at other times simply because they like them. Similarly, if you're feeding the correct ratios of everything, you shouldn't need any other supplements. Currently one of my dogs gets a joint supplement because she has hip dysplasia and my other one gets a digestive supplement as she has a tendency to drag her backside on the floor, and also at times, she wants to eat a load of grass so I'm trying this new supplement to see if it stops this from happening. In the warmer weather they get a herbal flea prevention supplement. Other than that they don't get much other than their food.
Sorry I did see this thread earlier but didn't have a chance to stop and type out a long reply! orpheous87 pretty much has it covered now.
I've also never fed raw to a puppy as Alfie was an adult when we started. I would do so for a future puppy but would also start on complete foods, so it would depend what you're able to get over there. That's not to say that you can't DIY for a puppy though, but completes are much easier for newbies to raw feeding until you get used to it.
I agree that reading as much information as you can will be helpful. I spent hours reading books, information on the internet and also asking questions here on the forum. It's super easy now we're used to it.
Sleep tight Alfie - your ticker should have stopped at 14 years, 8 months, 3 weeks & 6 days but I can't bring myself to remove it yet
Posts: 99
Animals I love: Cats, dogs, birds, all wildlife with possible exception of larger sharks Pets I own: Cat Hugo, Russian Blue
Dog Panda, Poodle / King Charles Cross
Also resident: possums, wallabies, kookaburras and magpies, and many other small marsupials and birds.
Thanks orpheous87 and alfiemummy. I am feeding her raw because that is all she'll really eat! I'd love to feed the complete dry food, which the vet recommends, but the dog says it's not edible. Do you think there is anything I could mix with the kibble that would tempt her? I've tried wetting it and mixing some tuna with it at the vet nurse's suggestion but Panda's response was WTH? Interested in the 80/10/10 rule. What veggies do your dogs like, orpheous87? There are heaps of complete foods available here. Probably come from the same multinationals as you get there. I will do some reading.
Lesson 2 - now you have the quoting under your belt , if you put an @ infront of the names orpheous87 and alfiemummy thats called tagging and both those will get a notificaion saying you are refering to them on this thread as you will see the @ doesnt show but the name becomes a lighter colour so you know it works x
Thanks orpheous87 and alfiemummy. I am feeding her raw because that is all she'll really eat! I'd love to feed the complete dry food, which the vet recommends, but the dog says it's not edible. Do you think there is anything I could mix with the kibble that would tempt her? I've tried wetting it and mixing some tuna with it at the vet nurse's suggestion but Panda's response was WTH? Interested in the 80/10/10 rule. What veggies do your dogs like, orpheous87? There are heaps of complete foods available here. Probably come from the same multinationals as you get there. I will do some reading.
If you would prefer to stick with a dry food then it might just be a case of trial and error or trying to tempt her as some dogs can be more fussy than others - a few of the other members here might be able to help with that. What brands of wet & dry have you tried so far?
Others will have different opinions, but I would never feed only dry food.
When we fed dry food I used to have to mix all sorts in to get Alfie eating it (yoghurt, cheese, wet food, meat, vegetables, gravy etc) I no longer have a problem with Alfie being fussy as he loves raw!
I don't doubt you are able to get a variety of complete foods, but (I think) orpheous87 and I were referring to complete raw food - from what I can gather from raw groups and forums, there isn't so much selection for you as there is in the UK? Unless I'm wrong and you did mean complete raw food!
Sleep tight Alfie - your ticker should have stopped at 14 years, 8 months, 3 weeks & 6 days but I can't bring myself to remove it yet
I also have only ever fed an adult dog raw and if I had a puppy would start on completes. We are lucky here in UK as there are a number of good companies who offer raw completes. The only complete I am aware of in Australia is this company but I can not comment on quality barfaustralia.com/
Raw feeding does not have to be complicated and difficult. There are two basic feeding models, the raw prey which orpheous87 has described and the Barf model. The prey model is based on 80:10:10 ratios. It is called prey model as idea is to mimic what a dog would catch and eat (be that a rabbit or bird....). The Barf model also contains meat, organs and bones but also fruit and vegetables. It might also contain dairy and supplements. Afraid I am unable to supply breakdown as it seems to vary depending on the source of the information.
I feed a mix of complete and DIY. I use the raw prey model as percentages for the breakdown of the meat I am giving. I am aware that I am not feeding the perfect prey model as I do not give enough hide, heads etc and due to soil depletion meat might not be as nutritious as it was 30-40yrs ago, so my dogs get some plant matter (vegetables and fruit etc) as added extras. They do not get it every day nor do I feed in large amounts. When feeding vegetables they must be cooked or blitzed in a food processor. As to what plant matter I add it varies but includes but not limited to broccoli, Brussels sprouts, blueberries, raspberries, spinach, kale .....
Afraid it is so long since I fed kibble and tinned food that I would not want to comment as to what is best. I used to feed kibble with wet food as a topper before I moved them to raw food.
Last Edit: Nov 8, 2017 22:39:35 GMT by caz2golden: sorry put 'and' instead of 'but' so updated
Yes, I was referring to complete raw foods jassycat1 . We can get things such as Natural Instinct and Nutriment here which include everything that would constitute a balanced diet for the dog and are a lot easier when it comes to actually feeding as all you need to do is defrost and portion out what you need each day.
Depending on what food your vet is recommending, I'd say you're probably already feeding a better diet if you're feeding raw!
When it comes to veggies, one of my girls will eat pretty much anything and guaranteed if someone is chopping veggies up in the kitchen, they will be accompanied by two of our dogs waiting for their bits. Ellie likes carrots and swede, and if I blitz things like cabbage up, she'll eat that too. She likes green beans as well. If you ever need to bulk out a meal because a dog is still hungry after eating their correct amount, you can add veggies to make them feel fuller.
If Panda is determined to eat raw food, you may be best sticking with it to avoid her refusing to eat, especially as she's still young. When I fed kibble and wet food, I used a high meat content, grain free kibble and it was mixed with a grain free wet food. The dogs both liked it, but sadly, it didn't agree with Ellie and she suffered with bloody diarrhoea every month for 3 months. Since being on raw we've had no repeats of this and both dogs love their food so much more.
There actually seems to be quite a big choice of complete raw food in Australia. Just google 'complete raw dog food Australia' and it'll bring up a whole page of websites that you can choose from.
Posts: 99
Animals I love: Cats, dogs, birds, all wildlife with possible exception of larger sharks Pets I own: Cat Hugo, Russian Blue
Dog Panda, Poodle / King Charles Cross
Also resident: possums, wallabies, kookaburras and magpies, and many other small marsupials and birds.
First of all, thank you all for the trouble you've taken to provide advice. Really grateful. Yes I was meaning dry kibble because that's what the vet is pushing. I am intrigued by the link 'feed pets not vets'. I will look at all the links you have kindly provided, especially the raw food ones here. Blown away you went to that trouble. The dog likes raw food, and there must be a reason for that. However, I'll also give kibble and yoghurt, cheese and gravy a try, alfiemummy. Tried mixing it with various sorts of meat, but she's good at eating round the kibble. I'll also try the vegetables you've recommended caz2golden and orpheous87. I've made a list of them. The good news is, Panda is growing. She weighed 1 kg at 8 weeks, now 2.2 kg at 13 weeks.006 by hzjxjyfl52, on Flickr
You are most welcome jassycat1! A vet will always push dry kibble, unless they're one of the few who advocate raw feeding. Vets don't tend to agree with raw feeding, citing the bones as too high a risk, along with DIY diets being deficient in one thing or another. If you choose to feed a pre-made complete raw food, that gets rid of all of the issues the vets worry about as the bone is ground down into very small pieces that are unlikely to cause any problems and the companies who produce the complete foods will have to have gone through rigorous testing in order to class their product as complete in the first place, so they are most likely to contain all the nutrients and vitamins etc. that are needed by a dog.
However, even DIY diets can be done successfully - you only have to look at the raw feeding groups on facebook for proof of this as there are lots of people on there who've fed raw for decades with no issues! As long as a bone is an appropriate size for a dog, it is unlikely that you will face any problems i.e. as long as it's not too small
Bones can always be fed frozen too, which makes it harder for them to gulp them down.
Posts: 99
Animals I love: Cats, dogs, birds, all wildlife with possible exception of larger sharks Pets I own: Cat Hugo, Russian Blue
Dog Panda, Poodle / King Charles Cross
Also resident: possums, wallabies, kookaburras and magpies, and many other small marsupials and birds.
Oh joy, she likes cheese! And ate some of the complete wet food with it. Just another question - do you cook the vegies or give them raw? That may sound daft. I did lightly cook some broccoli the other night. It wasn't a great hit, but she did nibble at it (out of boredom I'd guess) in the night reaches.
Veg needs to be cooked / steamed or if you want to feed raw blitzed in a food processor. I generally use the rule if we can eat raw (spinach, carrots etc) then they can, if we cook (i.e sweet potato, parsnips etc) then cook it for them.
scallywag: Mus be I have all my Daffs poking out about 11 inches already
Feb 10, 2024 8:13:25 GMT
lotsofcats: I've now got a daffodil out in one of my pots.
Feb 14, 2024 10:51:18 GMT
scallywag: Wow that is early
Feb 15, 2024 20:51:06 GMT
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scallywag: Update … All the daffodils planted in the grass verge other side of the road from us … are well in bloom now , looks lovely
Feb 16, 2024 18:51:30 GMT
lotsofcats: I saw some on the side of the road too, all in full bloom - beautiful.
Feb 20, 2024 16:20:28 GMT
scallywag: Tulips were next but not before my lovely Magnolia Tree
Mar 12, 2024 8:07:40 GMT
lotsofcats: I hope the frost doesn't get your Magnolia this year. A beautiful tree with a beautiful scent.
Mar 12, 2024 13:45:24 GMT
scallywag: Not as yet 👍💋
Mar 14, 2024 22:36:25 GMT
scallywag: Still got 60% of the petals on the tree
Mar 26, 2024 10:25:36 GMT
lotsofcats: Glad your Magnolia is ok. I've noticed the petals being blown off the trees here.
Apr 2, 2024 13:01:35 GMT
scallywag: Its nearly bare now , but then my minature one with deep purple flowers has just started opening up
Apr 3, 2024 6:19:59 GMT
lotsofcats: Shame they don't last longer. Glad you've got another variety to admire.
Apr 3, 2024 12:44:28 GMT
scallywag: Thank you , its right in front of the lounge / sunroom window and very protected, just doesnt have as many buds as the Pink one
Apr 3, 2024 15:37:55 GMT
caz2golden: Cant believe its April already!
Apr 4, 2024 19:52:10 GMT
caz2golden: Sounds pretty your way Scallywag
Apr 4, 2024 19:52:32 GMT
scallywag: Just spotted my Cherry Tree is in full bloom and was shielded from all that wind.
Apr 8, 2024 6:06:41 GMT
lotsofcats: Should be safe then and keep its blossom.
Apr 11, 2024 8:57:42 GMT
lotsofcats: My Clemetis Montana is starting to flower so I hope the winds have gone.
Apr 17, 2024 11:35:08 GMT
scallywag: My montana survived , l bought 2 more yesterday to trail along a fence this time so 🤞
Apr 17, 2024 11:39:41 GMT
lotsofcats: They look nice trailing along a fence. Mine is trailing over next door's fir tree hedge, her side and mine, it looks lovely.
Apr 17, 2024 14:11:34 GMT