paul
Settling in well!
Posts: 72 
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Post by paul on Jun 21, 2016 8:03:07 GMT
Hi all,
Our Teddy is such an anxious dog, he gets ever so stressed when any one of the family leaves him. It is sweet he loves us all so much, but it does limit us a little because we can't leave him through fear of him barking. He can be left at home no problem, so that is not the concern. But we could never leave him in the car without him barking (obviously I never leave him on hot days). For example, we take both dogs to obedience classes on Thursday nights. Currently, I have to take one day home and collect the other between classes, which is a real inconvenience. I would like to take both together and leave one in the car between classes, but unfortunately Teddy will bark non-stop and at 21:00hrs I reckon I am likely to annoy the neighbours. Also, when on walks he also get anxious, if I work on loose lead walking and stop every time he pulls, he will jump backward and forwards from a tight lead to the heel position. He will then start wining with frustration. He will also bark at me if I ignore him whilst I turn and talk to someone. All of these issues are not a big deal, but it would be good to learn how to teach him to be less anxious
Any advise would be great.
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Post by orpheous87 on Jun 21, 2016 20:53:54 GMT
Is there any possibility of you taking both dogs into the class with you but putting one in a crate while you work with the other? Or is that not allowed by your training club?
When loose lead walking, instead of just stopping, could you turn him round and walk in the other direction for a couple of steps? Then turn back the way you're wanting to head?
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Post by bextull on Jun 21, 2016 21:40:14 GMT
Hi all,
Our Teddy is such an anxious dog, he gets ever so stressed when any one of the family leaves him. It is sweet he loves us all so much, but it does limit us a little because we can't leave him through fear of him barking. He can be left at home no problem, so that is not the concern. But we could never leave him in the car without him barking (obviously I never leave him on hot days). For example, we take both dogs to obedience classes on Thursday nights. Currently, I have to take one day home and collect the other between classes, which is a real inconvenience. I would like to take both together and leave one in the car between classes, but unfortunately Teddy will bark non-stop and at 21:00hrs I reckon I am likely to annoy the neighbours. Also, when on walks he also get anxious, if I work on loose lead walking and stop every time he pulls, he will jump backward and forwards from a tight lead to the heel position. He will then start wining with frustration. He will also bark at me if I ignore him whilst I turn and talk to someone. All of these issues are not a big deal, but it would be good to learn how to teach him to be less anxious
Any advise would be great.
Thanks I'll start with the car issues. Is there no way you could bring him into the class with you and put him in a crate or a pen while you train your other dog? The video below should give you a good idea of what to do here (you do not need to use a clicker). You've just got to teach him to be alone in the car and maybe give him a kong or something to keep him busy for a bit of the time alone. Clearly in the video the puppy is not in a car, but the principle is the same. Do it all with the car door open, and then basically start again but close the door this time around. As for the loose lead walking, the behaviour you are getting (the immediately jumping back as soon as you stop) is likely a result of the method you've been using. While there is nothing wrong with what you've been doing, some dogs and owners can fall into, what I call, the "yo-yo" trap. As soon as your dog gets to the end of his lead and feels the pressure, he can predict that you will stop and as soon as you do he jumps back to your side expecting a treat (either an actual food reward or the reward of continuing on with the walk). In his mind, he's done what you wanted and you've rewarded him by moving forward again. I'd suggest a change in approach. Instead of stopping, change direction. Be unpredictable in how you walk. Randomly turn left and right, cross the road, walk backwards, turn around and walk 4 steps before turning back the other way. And change the pace of your walking, go slow, speed up, start skipping, stop, walk sideways, etc. He'll have no choice but to stick with you and you can add in a few little food rewards here and there as an extra incentive for him to stay close. The stop start method works well for some dogs but personally I always recommend the unpredictable approach instead as I've found it more effective. Of course, you'll look a bit mad to onlookers but thats the fun of it all!  The barking at you when talking to people sounds more like frustration than anxiety. Annoyance that you're not paying attention to him and you're not moving forward with your walk. In this situation, I'd ask him to sit or lie down (whichever he prefers) and give him a treat. Have your conversation but regularly give Teddy a treat for staying in position. But only if he stays in the position and stays quiet. If he moves, just ask him to sit again and treat him. If he whines or barks then ignore him until he stops and then treat him - you might have to be quick with that part as in the beginning you may only get a few seconds of quiet. You will also probably need a willing volunteer to practice this with. I'm sure there was something else I was going to add but my brain has just stopped working so that'll have to be it for now. |
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paul
Settling in well!
Posts: 72
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Post by paul on Jun 22, 2016 12:01:06 GMT
Thank you both for your replies.
All of the above issues are probably more frustration than anxiety, I never really considered that.
We spent a lot of time teaching both dogs loose lead walking, but I have to admit I tend to just stop lately when the lead goes tight. I guess I forgot about walking back and changing direction. I will start doing that again and see how he gets on. Although, I was using the erratic lead walking as an example of his frustrations and he really isn't as bad as I made out. He is easily controlled when it is just me and my daughter on walks, it is more likely to happen when the whole family goes out or we walk somewhere new.
My real problem lies with his barking when being left, or when he is ignored. I will work on these with him as described in the methods above.
Unfortunately I can't use a crate whilst in dog class. It was suggested before to bring both dogs along, but it was a disaster and upset the whole class. Both dogs could see each other and they were then both barking for each other.
Thanks
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Post by scallywag on Jun 22, 2016 12:05:05 GMT
paul I know I probably don't need to ask this , but seems it came to mind I am going to  Take it you do not do loose lead walking near any roads ? I see that so often on my walks 
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paul
Settling in well!
Posts: 72
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Post by paul on Jun 22, 2016 12:08:54 GMT
Hi scallywag. Nope, I have the dogs next to me when walking near the roads, which is particularly important for Teddy as he is so erratic he will easily jump into the road if not on a short lead.
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Post by bextull on Jun 22, 2016 12:50:54 GMT
Thank you both for your replies. All of the above issues are probably more frustration than anxiety, I never really considered that. We spent a lot of time teaching both dogs loose lead walking, but I have to admit I tend to just stop lately when the lead goes tight. I guess I forgot about walking back and changing direction. I will start doing that again and see how he gets on. Although, I was using the erratic lead walking as an example of his frustrations and he really isn't as bad as I made out. He is easily controlled when it is just me and my daughter on walks, it is more likely to happen when the whole family goes out or we walk somewhere new. Teaching loose leash walking is quite tiring and if it's not really that bad then I can totally understand why you'd get fed up and just stick with stopping and starting. The unpredictable method takes quite a bit of effort on the part of dog and owner.
I remember trying to teach my dog to walk nicely on the lead. I used so many different things and never got the results I wanted. But he wasn't really a puller, just an avid sniffer. Eventually I just resorted to not walking him on a lead and sticking to fields instead. Although, he does walk quite well on the lead these days.
Just remember to allow for some leeway when you are in new places. Thats not to say you should get rid of the rules all together, just allow for some exploration. You can even use this to your advantage - if he walks nicely for a few steps then reward with telling him he can have a sniff around. Then once you've decided thats enough, tell him to move along with you (something like "lets go" or whatever you prefer. Although I always avoid using "heel" as generally I will eventually be teaching a formal heel position).My real problem lies with his barking when being left, or when he is ignored. I will work on these with him as described in the methods above. Unfortunately I can't use a crate whilst in dog class. It was suggested before to bring both dogs along, but it was a disaster and upset the whole class. Both dogs could see each other and they were then both barking for each other. Thanks A lot of people tend to mistake frustration and attention seeking for anxiety. But having dealt with both, I've always found anxiety much harder to fix as it's not so much a behaviour but more of a state of mind. With the barking, ideally you don't want to let him practice this behaviour unless you are in control of the situation. I realise that most of the time this can't be avoided (everybody has to leave their dog at some point) but the less time he spends doing it outside of you teaching him otherwise, the easier it will be. And also be prepared for an "extinction burst". Basically after quite a bit of training, when you think theres light at the end of the tunnel, things are probably going to get a lot worse. He'll revert back to his old ways, and often it's worse than it's ever been. But this is normal when you're trying this kind of behaviour modification and it will pass, you just have to persevere. paul I know I probably don't need to ask this , but seems it came to mind I am going to Take it you do not do loose lead walking near any roads ? I see that so often on my walks Maybe I'm missing something here but what's wrong with loose lead walking near roads?  |
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Post by scallywag on Jun 22, 2016 13:07:01 GMT
Maybe I'm missing something here but what's wrong with loose lead walking near roads? I have seen dogs run into the road ( lucky nothing was coming )said ownr couldn't reel dog in quick enough  |
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Post by smilesbetter on Jun 22, 2016 13:28:02 GMT
I walk Rosa with a loose lead all the time, even near roads. The lead isn't long enough for her to run into the road and I just don't stand that close to the kerb when waiting to cross. If there is tension on the lead I refuse to walk until she comes beside me, I'd absolutely not walk her on a tight lead.
I admit over not read the whole thread so might have the wrong end of the stick here haha!!
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Post by alfiemummy on Jun 22, 2016 16:24:18 GMT
Do you mean a Flexi lead scallywag? If not then I don't understand either? I always walk Alfie on a loose lead, where ever we are. A short lead, but loose, we don't stand or walk close enough to the road for it to be a worry. He's only ever on a tight lead if we're passing something I want to keep him away from, or if we're crossing a road and have to stop on an island in the middle etc. |
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Post by scallywag on Jun 22, 2016 16:29:15 GMT
Yes Flexi leads is what I see so many times |
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Post by boxerluver30 on Jun 22, 2016 17:46:57 GMT
Hi paul. I would definetely recommend changing directions and being spontaneous method over just stopping as a method of stopping teddy jumping back. I used this with samson and now he walks very nicely on lead 99.9% of the time, when I just stopped he would carry on trying to pull me and it's not easy trying to stop a 35 kilo dog! Also it will probably stop him being able to predict when to jump back and force him to actually engage with you to know what to do. Try leaving him with a Kong or chew in the car when he's left alone so he makes a positive association with it. Also treat it like separation anxiety in a way and slowly build up time until you are able to have him happy for the amount of time your other dog is in the training classes for, so basically he is happy to be left. Barking does sound like frustration rather than anxiety like come on let's go! Reward him for being quiet and get him to sit and wait patiently, the reward could be as simple as If he sits quietly then carry on walking and allow him to sniff and explore, if he starts again then stop and wait for quiet. I knew what you meant scallywag, I actually see a lot of people walking their dogs off lead by roads around here! Samson is always put on a separate shorter lead when Road walking as I don't trust flexi to stay locked (it's half broken at this point lol) |
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Post by boxerluver30 on Jun 22, 2016 17:50:06 GMT
Samson is always on a loose lead as well, I generally put myself between him and the road. If he pulls I will walk in other direction, he soon realises and walks nicely. I will make lead tight if walking past other dogs on lead as he has an annoying habit of jumping (playfully) and again its not easy to control him when he does so I prefer to just walk past quickly
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Post by bextull on Jun 23, 2016 11:49:31 GMT
I see what you mean now scallywag. Not a fan of flexi leads myself. I've seen too many people using them in the worst places and the other day I saw a woman using one on her dog who was also wearing a head collar. Talk about sending mixed signals to your dog.  Loose Leash walking is entirely different though. It's just a method of teaching your dog not to pull and to walk nicely with you, but still allowing it the freedom to have a bit of a sniff at the same time provided the lead doesn't go tight. Although, personally I find "loose leash walking" a bit of a mouthful. |
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paul
Settling in well!
Posts: 72
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Post by paul on Jun 27, 2016 7:53:36 GMT
Hi all,
We went to Dogfest with both our dogs on Sunday. We tend to walk both dogs on a lead and harness and only use head halti's when going somewhere new and exciting. Unfortunately, as we use the halti so infrequently Teddy never really got used to it. Shelby wore her halti fine at Dogfest, but Teddy just keeps trying to bite his lip. Anyway, I ended up walking him on the harness only and I have to admit he wasn't that bad. He has his moments of excitement, but generally he walked pretty good with all the distraction about.
I have flexi leads for my dogs, but I only every use them for hiking, where they can't run free, but I need less control. I definitely couldn't keep proper control of them near the road on a flexi.
I would still maintain loose lead walking whilst walking near a road, but the definition is a little misleading as I wouldn't say I have a long loose lead hanging from my dogs. I simply shorten the lead so there is a small amount of slack, but not enough that if Teddy jumped forward he could end up in the road. I will still stop though if he applies pressure to the lead. Teddy would certainly lunge into the road if he saw a leaf blow or a cat, so I can't afford to give him too much slack. |
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