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Post by tonib on Jun 22, 2015 23:09:45 GMT
Took Penny to the vets this morning to get another blood test & weight to check if there is any cause for concern with her kidneys or if it was just a blip due to not eating & being dehydrated. As she needs mild sedation the plan was to clip her claws & check her teeth - I've had a suspicion about them as she's stopped eating her moist when it has lumps in it & seems to prefer the pate style which she didn't before. Also she seems to often have a dribble from her mouth by a canine tooth. She'd already lost most of her teeth before we got her at nearly 9 but none since (now 16). If they find anything & her bloods don't indicate a problem then the plan was to knock her out & do the dental work. I had a long chat with when I took Roman to have his staples out a week ago & he said he thought it was an "eminently sensible" idea to get her bloods checked again & hence combine the sedation needs. Mind you she has no problem with her kibble which she likes but I think she swallows them whole based on what we see if she gets a hairball!!! The vet rang me at 2:10 pm & say that here blood results changes, although in the wrong direction, were minimal from 2 months ago. So it looks like it could be well be a renal issue. However the good news was that her blood glucose although 8.4 (cats norm is apparently between 3 & 8) didn't indicate any diabetes issue as if that was the case they would probably be up in the 30s. He checked her teeth & there was tartar & gingivitis but due to her blood results he didn't want to give her a GA so cleaned as much as he could. Her canine is broken but no cause for concern. With the clean & her normal Metacam her mouth issues should improve. Her weight is 2.9Kg so she's lost 0.3Kg since the last check although oddly she doesn't look thinner. After discussion with vet we've decided that:- - she'll stay on the Metacam, the benefits for her arthritis at her age outweigh the possible kidney benefits of stopping it.
- not to try a renal diet as cats often don't find these palatable in the vets experience & its more important to ensure she eats well.
- To try ACE inhibitor tablets (benazecare) but if she has problems taking them not to stress her, gong to try crushing them in some food
- Get her weight checked again
- try & get her to have less dried & more wet food although that maybe by adding water to her kibble
I brought her home at 6 p.m. & when let out of her carrier she was very,very wobbly. Staggering with crossed front legs, collapsing back legs & falling over. She wasn't that bad last time. She's been drinking a lot & not eating much and although the wobbles seem to be be gradually improving she's still not back to normal. We're going to see how she is in the morning & if necessary contact the vet again. She has used the litter tray at least. She's currently sprawled in her new bed.
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Post by gypsy on Jun 23, 2015 10:01:09 GMT
Took Penny to the vets this morning to get another blood test & weight to check if there is any cause for concern with her kidneys or if it was just a blip due to not eating & being dehydrated. As she needs mild sedation the plan was to clip her claws & check her teeth - I've had a suspicion about them as she's stopped eating her moist when it has lumps in it & seems to prefer the pate style which she didn't before. Also she seems to often have a dribble from her mouth by a canine tooth. She'd already lost most of her teeth before we got her at nearly 9 but none since (now 16). If they find anything & her bloods don't indicate a problem then the plan was to knock her out & do the dental work. I had a long chat with when I took Roman to have his staples out a week ago & he said he thought it was an "eminently sensible" idea to get her bloods checked again & hence combine the sedation needs. Mind you she has no problem with her kibble which she likes but I think she swallows them whole based on what we see if she gets a hairball!!! The vet rang me at 2:10 pm & say that here blood results changes, although in the wrong direction, were minimal from 2 months ago. So it looks like it could be well be a renal issue. However the good news was that her blood glucose although 8.4 (cats norm is apparently between 3 & 8) didn't indicate any diabetes issue as if that was the case they would probably be up in the 30s. He checked her teeth & there was tartar & gingivitis but due to her blood results he didn't want to give her a GA so cleaned as much as he could. Her canine is broken but no cause for concern. With the clean & her normal Metacam her mouth issues should improve. Her weight is 2.9Kg so she's lost 0.3Kg since the last check although oddly she doesn't look thinner. After discussion with vet we've decided that:- - she'll stay on the Metacam, the benefits for her arthritis at her age outweigh the possible kidney benefits of stopping it.
- not to try a renal diet as cats often don't find these palatable in the vets experience & its more important to ensure she eats well.
- To try ACE inhibitor tablets (benazecare) but if she has problems taking them not to stress her, gong to try crushing them in some food
- Get her weight checked again
- try & get her to have less dried & more wet food although that maybe by adding water to her kibble
I brought her home at 6 p.m. & when let out of her carrier she was very,very wobbly. Staggering with crossed front legs, collapsing back legs & falling over. She wasn't that bad last time. She's been drinking a lot & not eating much and although the wobbles seem to be be gradually improving she's still not back to normal. We're going to see how she is in the morning & if necessary contact the vet again. She has used the litter tray at least. She's currently sprawled in her new bed. How is Penny this morning? I would definately agree with adding more water to her diet. The more hydrated Penny is the less damage the metacam will do her kidneys. The Lilys Kitchen trays are very good. You could even add a bit of water to wet food too. Another idea, have you thought of giving Penny filtered rather than tap water - less chemicals in her drinking water will also help.
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Post by tonib on Jun 23, 2015 10:55:58 GMT
Thanks gypsy, Filtered water may well be an idea although will need to get a water filter first but that's not a problem. She doesn't drink from the cat bowls but from one or other of our water fountains, currently she seems to prefer the Drinkwell Platinum one in preference to the older Catit Design Senses one although she still uses it on occasion. The odd thing is that Lexie only uses the Catit one! Maybe that's the reason Penny prefers the other! One good thing about Penny is that she does (& always has) drunk well, which is why I considered possible diabetes. Yesterday she hardly stopped going to & from the water fountain with an occasion look at a water bowl (which she didn't use), often with a long drool from her chin which did get cleaned away by us several times, for 2 or 3 hours after she got back having a long drink each time. Must clean that water fountain today! I'll try Lilys Kitchen I know I tried them once but I think it was for Osiris who didn't like them & I don't think I gave Penny any as at that time she was not touching the more pate style which I seem to remember they are (although I could be confusing them with another brand. The wet food is not pate style is usually a gravy base rather than jelly so that helps but if she won't eat the kibble moistened I'll add more water to her moist. Penny seemed to have lost the wobbles by 12:45 a.m. but was still not quite herself, she was more sunk down on her lower hind legs & not really interested in any moist food - she had a teaspoon or so - not even fresh cooked chicken so despite not wanting to give her any kibble that night as wanted to keep the food light I did give her a little which she eventually ate. As a result I didn't give her Metacam as I didn't think she'd had enough food. This morning she's had some gravy out of her wet food, ignored the kibble & only a little of the treat food with her Metacam in. However she is walking as normal (back legs straighter) although still subdued - not surprising really. She's now coming for a bit of fuss, although not jumping up (& she doesn't do pick ups) which could well be down to the lack of Metacam. One good thing is now when having chin rubs she's not shying away from anywhere so it does seem the dental work was worth doing. The vets did a good job of her shave for the bloods, last time she looked like a chicken neck but this time you have to look to find it, it still showing white instead of pink!!! I will mention to the vets how long it took for her recover from the sedation (ketamine I believe) when I next see them to make sure its on her records
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Post by scallywag on Jun 23, 2015 11:16:55 GMT
Ooooo how did I miss this post, you must think me ignorant not to respond. Big {{{HUGS}}} to you. What another worrying time for you, poor penny too. Hope things get better soon for her xx
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Post by tonib on Jun 23, 2015 12:29:26 GMT
Thanks scallywag & of course I didn't think that I'm not over worried about Penny, all this vet visit did is confirm what we already knew/suspected re her kidneys which is not surprising as she's 16 & been on Metacam (at various levels) since October 2010! Also its not serious yet although her weight loss is a bit concerning but she seems Ok otherwise. We were a bit concerned yesterday evening but thought it probably was the sedation taking a longer time to pass through her system. At least there was some good news regarding no diabetes & now improved teeth condition
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Post by lotsofcats on Jun 23, 2015 15:30:25 GMT
I missed this post too scallywag!! I hope that Penny gets better soon. It is hard to try and get cats to drink more water - have you tried putting some water on the kibble - I used to do that with Kiba-Khan because of his constipation problems.
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Post by tonib on Jun 23, 2015 21:51:38 GMT
Thanks lotsofcats, Penny does drink plenty of water, she has much more than our other cats though with Roman & Osiris being more outdoors we don't know how much they drink elsewhere. I tried some water on her kibble this morning - she didn't touch it!!!! How much water did you put on Kiba-Khan's kibble? Today she had most of the gravy & a little of the actual meat from her morning moist along with a little Encore tuna & crab with her Metacam in but no kibble even before I added water to it. This evening she's eaten the dried (no water) but not touching the moist (pate style) or the malt paste with the crushed 1/2 tablet in. The vet has said its not ideal to crush the tablet but that's better than no tablet! He knows Penny grump puss. Just a thought gypsy, having no experience of water filters I'm not sure what they use to filter the chemicals out. Would it be carbon filters in which case our water fountains do the same thing?
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Post by migsy on Jun 23, 2015 22:05:41 GMT
Sounds like your water fountains are a great idea tonib.I use a water filter and fill Skips bowl from it as I read some time ago filtered water was preferable for pets than tap water.I am sure cats are much more finicky than dogs.Hope Penny picks up very soon,our pets worry us sick at times.
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Post by gypsy on Jun 23, 2015 22:15:06 GMT
Thanks lotsofcats, Penny does drink plenty of water, she has much more than our other cats though with Roman & Osiris being more outdoors we don't know how much they drink elsewhere. I tried some water on her kibble this morning - she didn't touch it!!!! How much water did you put on Kiba-Khan's kibble? Today she had most of the gravy & a little of the actual meat from her morning moist along with a little Encore tuna & crab with her Metacam in but no kibble even before I added water to it. This evening she's eaten the dried (no water) but not touching the moist (pate style) or the malt paste with the crushed 1/2 tablet in. The vet has said its not ideal to crush the tablet but that's better than no tablet! He knows Penny grump puss. Just a thought gypsy, having no experience of water filters I'm not sure what they use to filter the chemicals out. Would it be carbon filters in which case our water fountains do the same thing?I just have an Aqua filter jug and I buy the cartridges (argos) which are very reasonable. I use this to fill a very large water bowl that both the dogs and cats drink from. I used to have a cat water fountain years ago and yes as I recall it works the same way with the filters. In the end I put it away because the cats rarely used it. But if Penny is happy using one then it will do the same job.
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Post by tonib on Jun 23, 2015 22:19:06 GMT
Thanks gypsy Penny only drinks from the fountains, Lexie does during the day - she has a bowl for over night both Roman & Osiris when seen drinking prefer the bowls!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 13:20:47 GMT
After discussion with vet we've decided that:- - she'll stay on the Metacam, the benefits for her arthritis at her age outweigh the possible kidney benefits of stopping it.
- not to try a renal diet as cats often don't find these palatable in the vets experience & its more important to ensure she eats well.
My cat Sam also has a degree of arthritis in her back legs, but she had an extremely bad reaction to Metacam. Within 20 minutes of eating it she was very wobbly and just collapsed on the arm of a chair. I took her to the vet, but she recovered after a few hours without treatment. I think the arthritis just causes stiffness, especially to sideways movement of her back legs, and she doesn't exhibit any signs of pain. Sam has the Hills K/D dried food, but wouldn't touch the wet version. She seems to like it, and it seems to be beneficial as her weight has stabilised at 4kg and blood test results were unchanged from 3 months previously. Her favourite wet food is the Gourmet slow-cooked range (beef and duck), which comes in a tomato sauce.
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Post by tonib on Jun 25, 2015 18:25:56 GMT
@cs2015, sorry to read about your cat's react to Metacam, our Penny has been on it for a number of years without any such reaction. However I don't know if your vet has looked at Nutraquin+ as an option for Sam's arthritis. Penny was on it for a few years but when she stopped eating much it was always the meal with the powders in that she really didn't want so with the first blood test results we stopped giving it to her as getting her eating was more important. Roman has just the Nutraquin+ for his early arthritis & it doesn't seem to be showing the symptoms he did before he started them. I'll see if I can get a small amount (sample?) of the K/D. Glad to read it worked for Sam. thanks for the information its much appreciated.
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Post by cazypops on Jun 25, 2015 19:50:58 GMT
Oh poor Penny, I hope things improve for her. I know it not too serious at the moment but still a worry all the same.
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Post by scallywag on Jun 26, 2015 7:23:28 GMT
However I don't know if your vet has looked at Nutraquin+ as an option for Sam's arthritis. Penny was on it for a few years but when she stopped eating much it was always the meal with the powders in that she really didn't want so with the first blood test results we stopped giving it to her as getting her eating was more important. Roman has just the Nutraquin+ for his early arthritis & it doesn't seem to be showing the symptoms he did before he started them. Beau was on the Nutrauin ( horse pills , ) after he snapped his crutiate ligament , never replaced them when used up, decided to put him back on Arthriaid liquid, hes showing no signs of stiffness now , maybe try that @cs2015 x
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Post by tonib on Jun 30, 2015 12:31:41 GMT
Well Penny hasn't been eating well this last week, I think this wasn't help by my OH being away Wednesday through Sunday. (I'll create a new thread on that!) We were also getting to the end of the ACE inhibitor tablets, so took her back to the vets yesterday evening. I told her about how long it took to recover from the sedation (ketamine) on her last visit, the vet said she hadn't had any more than the previous time (2 months ago) so I said I presumed that this was due to her kidneys not flushing it out as effectively - he agreed. Her skin stayed up more than he'd like when lifted showing she was slightly dehydrated, which is not good news considering how much she has been drinking from the fountains or in her food but its also coming out the other end in larger than normal quantities! She was not impressed when he took her temperature which was OK! She was weighed at 3Kg but as the vet warned this was yet another set of scales but does seem to imply that she hasn't lost any more weight from a ago (when she was 2.85 or 2.9Kg depending on which vet scales were used). Ironically she was 2.9 Kg when we got her from the rescue at aged nearly 9! I then said that I recognised that sometime in the future (unspecified) she was not going to survive & that would be much sooner if she didn't eat enough so what could we do now as despite the problems she was still full of (elderly) life , chasing the neighbour's Tigga out the garden etc. He said that in view of my comment there was a drug that did wonders for lack of appetite but it was not supposed to be used with Metacam. So we decided to give Penny the injection & stop the Metacam & review over the phone on Thursday, she'll still have the ACE tablets which finish (dependent on the review) on Wednesday. She certainly showed she had some spirit in her when he gave the injection. I was holding her front end (not too tightly as that makes her worse) & as he flinched back he asked if I was Ok. I said I was fine after all with her teeth she wasn't going to do much damage & he said "Thats true!" The drug is a steroid - he did tell me but having looked it up I obviously heard/remebered it wrong - but with a bit of research I think its Laurabolin, as that would fit with the part of the name I remember. Tigga & Lexie had better look out as it's an anabolic steroid based on testosterone! I remember our previous cat, Chloe, having steroid injections (suspect the same drug) at gradually more frequent intervals in the last period of her life but she was looking much more elderly than Penny when they started (she was 17). Penny, at 16, still looks glossy coated, bright eyed etc. She does seem to be eating slightly more so fingers crossed. On a side note he told me he was leaving the practice Friday week as he's bought his own practice in Brigg, Lincolnshire. That will be a shame for us as despite all the vets being good at our practice as I think we (me & the cats) got on well with him (chatting, laughing & care), he listened to & respected what I said about how our cats were & also clearly explained things to me as well as a doing the best he could for the cats. Our loss Briggs gain
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