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Post by marniepudnme on Jan 19, 2015 8:53:17 GMT
Hi All,
I have had my gorgeous girl Puddin' (tortoise shell) for 6 years, she arrived at my house as a very tiny kitten and never left - she is very loving and enjoys a big fuss. I adore her, we're very close!
Having done a lot of research and prepared pud's environment as best I could, I decided to get a puppy; Marnie arrived last weekend - a little earlier than expected (not very nice breeders!) at 7 weeks old. Unfortunately, as I had hoped, I didn't have time to rub Marnie in a blanket for Puddin' to smell before she came.
We started out remarkably well! Marnie is very respectful of Pud and never approaches her without appropriate caution - Pud would let her get so close before hissing and raising her paw - but never batting at Marnie. Pud also started having a good sniff of Marnie whilst she slept and even came for a cuddle with me when Marnie was asleep in my arms.
However, throughout the week Pud's changed her behaviour and I'm a bit concerned about her. If anyone could give me some tips I'd really appreciate the advice...
1. Pud stopped eating - I had been putting her food on a high level but she didn't take to it. Midweek I moved her food bowl to half way up the stairs and she's started eating well again.
2. If pud came down to use her litter tray (in the lounge) the slightest noise would spook her and she'd bolt - this resulted in her pooing in my bedroom twice. I moved her litter tray to the top of the stairs - which she is again using normally now.
Sadly though, Pud is seeming more and more reluctant to come downstairs! Have I done the wrong thing? She also seems much less bothered about interacting with Marnie, and instead of standing her ground as she started to - has become a bit of a scaredy cat around Marnie. (Marnie's behaviour hasn't changed toward Puddin' she is respectful, calm and trying to make friends) If there are any positive methods I could do to encourage Puddin to interact with me and Marnie, and also take steps for her to be comfortable as poss in her home I'd be glad of the advice.
Thank you!
H x
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Post by scallywag on Jan 19, 2015 9:51:29 GMT
Welcome to the forum marniepudnme looking forward to hearing how you get on, will take a little time but given time it will work out wont it cazypops heres one of her posts Read more: yourpetforums.co.uk/thread/4566/new-puppy#ixzz3PG8JDB8Csorry I am a one pet at a time owner so can't really help here. You didn't say what breed the puppy is ? Maybe 2 litter trays might be an idea, I'm sure she will adapt given time . Good luck
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Post by bectil on Jan 19, 2015 10:18:28 GMT
Welcome to the forum, marniepudnme! There has been a slightly similar thread on here about a members two cats not feeling comfortable to go down stairs because of a new puppy. I will have a hunt for it for you. Like cazypops cat, my cat did the same for a little while when we first got my Collie pup - she wandered off to a friends house up the road. I think for now, put Puddin's litter box and food upstairs as this is obviously where she feels most comfortable. Does Marnie over crowd Puddin'? When both are down stairs, if Marnie goes over to Puddin' let her have a little sniff then move Marnie away by distracting her with a treat or toy so that she learns to give Puddin' space.
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Post by lotsofcats on Jan 19, 2015 10:21:21 GMT
Welcome to the forum. I think you have done the wrong thing!! but, I can understand you doing it - you wanted Puddin to eat. Puddin now feels she has been evicted from her usual place. You need to get Puddin back to where she usually eats and sleeps. Where does the puppy sleep? Can you keep the puppy to mainly one room? - the kitchen if Puddin's usual place is the living room. You need to keep Marnie separate from Puddin at night. Can Marnie be shut in the kitchen and then Puddin can wander about? You need to gradually move Puddin back downstairs with her litter tray and try feeding her within sight of the puppy but don't allow the puppy to get at her food. It will take time and you will need to make a big fuss of her. I think Puddin will come round as she started off so well.
I had 3 cats when I introduced Kobi as a puppy and although the cats hissed at him they soon got used to him as I kept him in the kitchen and them in the living room whenever I wasn't around.
Good luck - let us know how it goes.
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Post by bectil on Jan 19, 2015 10:40:21 GMT
Welcome to the forum. I think you have done the wrong thing!! but, I can understand you doing it - you wanted Puddin to eat. Puddin now feels she has been evicted from her usual place. You need to get Puddin back to where she usually eats and sleeps. Where does the puppy sleep? Can you keep the puppy to mainly one room? - the kitchen if Puddin's usual place is the living room. You need to keep Marnie separate from Puddin at night. Can Marnie be shut in the kitchen and then Puddin can wander about? You need to gradually move Puddin back downstairs with her litter tray and try feeding her within sight of the puppy but don't allow the puppy to get at her food. It will take time and you will need to make a big fuss of her. I think Puddin will come round as she started off so well. I had 3 cats when I introduced Kobi as a puppy and although the cats hissed at him they soon got used to him as I kept him in the kitchen and them in the living room whenever I wasn't around. Good luck - let us know how it goes. Sorry lotsofcats, I have to disagree with you there If this happened to my cat, I'd rather she was eating where she felt safe. Perhaps in a few weeks or so, like you said, gradually move the litter box and food down stairs. The link below is the thread I was talking about. There is a bit of info there - tonib's advice about fussing and grooming the cat with pups presence is a good idea I think. You could try that, though if Puddin' is sitting on you, I wouldn't let Marnie sit with you too because it's Puddin's time for a fuss. You could give Marnie a kong or something to keep her occupied at this point. (Cat v Dog Thread)
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Post by cazypops on Jan 19, 2015 11:55:47 GMT
I'm sorry I can't offer much more advice than what the others have already said. I have two cats, and both came from the same house but don't interact with each other. So when we got Jasper two and a half years ago I never expected any different. When we brought him home, we fed all three together in the kitchen, but the cats were at one end and asper at the other. Unfortunately Jasper took a liking to Bandits food so we moved her food up onto the work top. So I agree i'd start to move her dish back slowly a bit at a time till they are back together. Also I would keep them separate while they are both home alone. We also have a tall tower for the cats and Jasper knows not to go anywhere near when one of the cats are on there, is this something you can have to give Pud somewhere high to go while in the same room? Sorry it's not much help. but what I will say is that they will work something out between themselves. My two cats stay upstairs mainly but they do sit near each other too if not snuggled up together. this is when we were taking Bandit to the vets the other month. and this is when the sun is shining, it also applies when the fire is on too. Just be patient, they'll get there in the end.
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Post by marniepudnme on Jan 19, 2015 12:54:07 GMT
Thank you all for taking the time to respond, I'm thrilled to hear some similar experiences.. In reply to some of your questions - Marnie is a Miniature Jack Russell. I know characteristically JR's are not known to be cat dogs, however, I did plenty of research of JR & Cat owners before I bought her. I chose a very young pup; from a family of other dogs, cats and children. I also chose a miniature JR, so she will never be bigger (in size if not attitude!) of Pud. I have to say, Marnie is excellent - she does not overcrowd Pud, lets her come in before she approaches, and always approaches with caution. My concern is if Pud doesn't exert her authority now, that Marnie might not be so good when she grows! Patience...was never my virtue! (sorry!) Marnie is crate training, she eats in her crate and goes in on a "bed" command. She stays in for 3 hrs at a time and sleeps in there through the night - Puddin' always has free roam of the house. Thank you Bectil - I will read up on fussing and grooming Pud and make sure she gets plenty of 1 to 1 fuss. Puddin has always slept with me under the covers at night (and hasn't stopped at Marnie's arrival), I decided before buying Marnie that unless they became friends - the bed would always be Pud's space. When Marnie is grown I will put a stair gate in place. Unfortunately you couldn't swing Pud in my kitchen (not that I ever would ) but if Puddin prefers it that way we will keep a upstairs/downstairs divide. In the meantime, I have bought 2 over radiator cat beds for downstairs and pud has a favourite spot on my dining room table (gross I know but I bet some of you do it ha!) before her retreat Pud would watch Marnie from the table, but never pounced) I will get a second litter tray tonight and put it where Pud's used to having it, I will also put a bowl of food in her usual spot when Marnie goes in her crate (she eats everything in sight - including my nostrils! but we are working on the "leave it" command) Pud has never been one for treats, but she LOVES crab meat, so I will get plenty in and put a bowl down in the front room as a treat. Do you think it wise to get Pud's claws trimmed? I don't want to put her through any more unnecessary stress but if its worthwhile I will sort it. Thanks again! H
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Post by cazypops on Jan 19, 2015 15:28:46 GMT
Just to reassure, our Jasper is a Parsons Russell which you may know is the larger (original bread) of Jack. We have never had either of the cats claws trimmed and believe me Jasper has had quite a few swipes over the years. He has never come to any harm and if anything it has taught him not to get to close. Jasper is a typical terrier and has the killer instinct. He has no problem with our two BUT if another neighbourhood cat comes in our garden and he gets hold of it he WILL kill it, claws or no claws.
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Post by lotsofcats on Jan 19, 2015 15:41:59 GMT
I think you are doing everything you can think of and that Puddin will eventually come round. I didn't think to ask if you had a crate for Marnie - this will definitely help. Puddin will soon realise that she can do as she wants when Marnie is in the crate.
The only time I've had a cat's claws trimmed was when I showed 2 of my cats and it compulsory. I wish I could do it myself. I've only ever had trouble with my most recent cat Toffee, who was a stray and hated my dog Kobi for the first 2 years he was with us. Poor Kobi was very puzzled as he loves cats! Toffee once went at him like a flying Ninja and scratched his ear and made it bleed lots - he still has the scar! I believe Toffee must have had a bad experience with a dog when he was a stray.
Just noticed your lovely photo - Puddin is like my cat Kali.
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Post by tonib on Jan 21, 2015 22:55:20 GMT
Welcome to the forum marniepudnme. I'm Toni with 4 rescue cats aged between 5 & 15. I've no experience of mixing dogs & cats but have of introducing cats to each other with varying degrees of success & failure. Our last addition (nearly 3 years ago) was not our best decision (not the cat herself but adding another into the mix). Our other 3 are very much individuals not a family whereas Lexie came from a home with a lot of cats & wants to socialise/play whereas the others don't. We've now got to the position where its basically tolerance of her most of the time, predominantly by avoidance. at will. Luckily we have the space & the cats can go out and she sleeps in her own room at night to give the others peace & as I'm retired I've got the time to interact with them all separately. This doesn't really help you other than to show that there are ways of coping & that it can take time. I would be inclined to ensure that you have one to one time with Pud with & without Marnie present & vice versa especially downstairs. However it has to be in Pud's time, you mustn't force then to be together or in a particular place. I would also make sure that Pud has plenty of places to hide or get high is actually the if she feels threatened by Marnie (whether she actually is or not). Trying to get her food back to its normal place, gradually, is a good idea so that she can revert to her normal routine. Just a though, does she have her meal in one go or does she graze. If she grazes then you could provide her main meal in the normal site when Marnie is having hers in the crate and also provide small amounts of kibble (from her daily allowance) in various other places so that she can get to them when Marnie is free & she might feel threatened. A puppy may be being respectful but Marnie'll still be bouncing around (at least that's what I remember puppies doing from many , many years ago when we had them) & that might be worrying Pud, there's not much you can do about that though other than make sure that Marnie stays respectful. May sound a silly question but are they alone at home for periods of the day (e.g.everyone at work or similar)? If do I wonder what happens then? I hope that's of some help. Please let us know how you get on and don't hesitate to ask for further help or clarification which my long (rambling?) response might need Good luck
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Post by marniepudnme on Jan 27, 2015 14:52:00 GMT
Thank you so much cazypops and lotsofcats for your reassurance! cazypops your photo's are lovely! I really hope we get to where you are at home too!!! I'm sorry for the late response to you all, it's been a busy week. Thank you also to tonib - I will answer some of your questions as best as possible. Marnie is getting big - fast! She is obviously very settled and happy in her new home. Pud still spends a lot of time upstairs and won't eat anything downstairs, but this weekend my boyfriend was over to offer a helping hand and Pud loves Giovanni. She was much more willing to come downstairs to sit on his knee. We also took Marnie out for a long walk (in my coat!) so she was more than willing to curl up for an hr's kip in her crate so we could have some QT with Pud downstairs. If only it were the weekend everyday... Now that she is bigger, Marnie is being a little testing. She has mastered the stairs - which is proving a nightmare with Pud's food! She is also biting a lot and hard! I'm a bit worried about this, any tips would be most appreciated. I've tried 'leave it' command also yelping like a dog (to my neighbours amusement!) and going limp when she bites hard - none of which seem to have much effect on her. She loses interest in toys very quickly, favouring hanging onto the back on my ankles as I walk about. I'm struggling to know what to do for the best there. I am a keen walker, and feel a little as though both Marnie and I will be relieved when she has had her 2nd jab in 3 weeks time so we can both get out and about. As I mentioned, I took her to town in a sling on Saturday, she loved it and was such a pleasure when we got her home. Since the weekend pud has started coming downstairs at around 9pm in the evening. I've tried putting an additional bowl of food down, and she seems interested but is clearly too stressed to eat anything - even though I've put Marnie in her crate, the slightest movement or sound from Marnie puts Pud on edge. Now Marnie has mastered the stairs, there's another dilemma involved - Shut the door to give Pud peace, but ultimately shut her out - or leave it open and find Marnie regularily tucking into poor Pud's biscuits! Puddin is a bit of fickle, she scoffs or grazes depending on her mood. !! An important thing to mention about Pud - I'm almost certain she is only partially sighted. When she was young she came home from a fight in a bad way, she hit behind the kitchen cupboards for a week and when she came out her ear was clean split down the middle. I noticed in later life that her right pupil looks glazed over and doesn't expand or close as responsively to the left. Sometimes she jumps up clean on top of Marnie, and get a bit of a spook when she realises. I'm so cross with myself for overlooking this! tonib - bedtime has always been mine and puds time, she curls up right next to me and purrs away until we both doze off. It's also fair to say she's always settled upstairs on the bed whilst I'm out during the day! She comes across sometimes at night, and sometimes settles on the top of the sofa, but won't sit on me if Marnie is there. Yes, they are both alone. I go to work for 3 hrs, come home for 1 at lunch then back again in another 3 hrs. Sometimes I have to go and do an hr or so in the evenings, but intend to take Marnie with me at these times when she's older. Puddin must be going downstairs in the day - because she's going to town with her claws on my sofa!!! Any help on the biting and improving the 'leave it' command (esp with the cats food) would be so helpful Any further tips on Pud's comfort would also be great. Thanks All! H x
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Post by cazypops on Jan 27, 2015 20:36:31 GMT
Welcome to the teething stage. We've all gone through it, and it hurts. Jasper still mouths even now at two an a half years but he doesn't hurt thankfully. Like you when he started to bite we would yelp or shout ouch! but instead of just going limp we would remove our hand well away from him and put him away from us. This will teach him that if he bites then his plaything ie, you will be removed and if he wants to play then he hasn't to bite. As for the leave it command, when you see him with something you don't want him to have it's LEAVE IT! right away, take it off him and then give him something he is allowed to have. It will come in time, you just need a little perseverance. Have you thought of taking him to puppy classes when he's old enough? In hindsight I wish I'd taken Jasper.
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Post by scallywag on Jan 27, 2015 21:25:59 GMT
Beau had to go gack twice to puppy classes, he was the oldest scholar there age 3 but I was lucky they allowed me to attend, he learned a lot there including going right back to basics the leave and also the heal . Just takes consistency patience and time. He will still mouth if we let him, which we dont, and hes 7 now Good luck, you will get there, just find the right way it works for you and pup
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Post by marniepudnme on Jan 28, 2015 8:35:22 GMT
Thanks guys! We had a good night last night, moving her away seems to be just the ticket - she was very responsive to be inconvenienced during playtime! I also put Marnie in her crate (fast asleep as she'd had a play date) 1/2 an hr earlier than I was due for bed last night, Puddin came down to watch a bit of tele with me - lush. Will start to make that part of our routine. Any tips on good toys for teething? So glad I started this post much love x oh PS - I looked into puppy training yesterday and will follow up as she's due for her 2nd jab. Also, I have booked her in for her microchip mid March because a local vets was offering a free service, but a friend told me to wait until she's going to be spade (I will wait for her 1st season) as the microchip hurts and they can do it whilst she's under. Any thoughts on that? H
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Post by zahada on Jan 28, 2015 16:53:13 GMT
My vets offer chipping at second vax. Personally I'd have it done then otherwise what happenens if she gets lost/ stolen before she goes for spaying?
The pain when the chip is inserted is usually short lived, most dogs don't react, some squeal. But some dogs squeal with anticipation, even if nothing painful or unpleasant follows.
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