winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 18, 2014 12:48:41 GMT
Hi all, im new to the forum! I have a 2 year old male Jackadoodle Winston, he has not had the best start in life he was born blind and when he was 1 year we found out he was epileptic - apart from this he is a normal healthy dog full of life and loads of energy he never stops! He is on medication to stabilise fits but in the last few weeks he is constantly peeing and pooing every night I have been to the vets with him twice and they have took sample and blood test and everything has came back clear and the vet thinks it may be a behavioural problem? He sleeps down stairs in his own little room which he has done since we got him at 8 weeks old. There are no changes in the house that could be disturbing him and we have started staying up later to take him out and also getting up earlier to take him out in the morning. When he is home during the day there are no accidents? No change to his food either. We are stuck as of what to do - I have also moved him from his own little room into the kitchen and I cleaned his room to get rid of any scent there were no accidents for 3 nights then again he has started doing it. He gets plenty of walks and exercise and when in the house he is always playing and running about mad so he never stops! I have asked the vet if this could be related to his medication but they are telling me its not. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
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Post by smilesbetter on Nov 18, 2014 16:17:26 GMT
Welcome to the forum, sorry to hear that Winston isn't having the best time.
Well I'd firstly suggest you look at what times you are feeding him at night, have you always done it at the exact same time or have you been feeding him later or earlier recently?
Then I'd look at the stools themselves, are they loose or just as normal? This can give you a clue to what is going on.
Also has he had any changes in his medication recently? Sometimes the vet will change them because another company is offering a better price or whatever, and the new ones might not agree with him.
Also have you considered that he may have started having epileptic fits at night? They can often cause a dogs body to empty itself either during the fit, or just afterwards due to the high adrenaline.
If it were me, I'd set up a camera of some sort one night to see whats going on, or even use one of those baby monitor things. Perhaps there is something happening outside at night that is simply waking him up? After a sleep, a dog often wants to go straight to the toilet so it could just be that something has woken him up. Maybe an animal or dog outside, or someone driving up your road, could be anything. Also if it is the fits, this would be a way of finding out for sure and might help you to establish whether there is something happening which is triggering it.
In the meantime, you might wanna considering training him to use a litter tray. He will be able to find it by scent once you've trained him to use it, just don't keep switching the litter you use or it might confuse him. that way at least it will be easier to clean and it will keep him happy. Dogs tend to get VERY upset if they have to soil their "den" so having a litter tray set out for him would at least prevent him panicking that he needs the loo and doesn't want to go inside but can't get anywhere else.
Finally, what is the medication he is on? I'd recommend looking it up and finding out the side effects just in case.
Just a few ideas for you anyway, hope they help!
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winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 18, 2014 16:54:37 GMT
Hi
Many thanks for your reply,
We feed him at 7am 1/2 portion and then again at 4pm (vet recommended we split his meals into 2 as his medication is making him really hungry) he has always been fed at this time and always gets fed the same amount.
Also checked stools they do appear to be normal?
His medication is epiphen solution and libromide - both medications have been increased over the last 6 weeks and this was the only thing I could think of that could be causing the increase in pooing and peeing but the vet says there is no evidence to say it is the medication! I looked online at both and funnily enough the libromide took me on to a forum and a few people where saying their dogs were having accidents indoors.
Its just strange why he is always doing this at night time and I feel really guilty for telling him off but its so frustrating - I know its not his fault but I feel I still have to tell him off so he knows.
His fits have been fairly stable and when he does take one we do always wake up to a small accident which we do expect.
I am beginning to think he maybe is just in a really bad habit? He doesn't seem to mind getting told off he runs away and chases his toys!!
Great idea thanks I didn't even think of setting a cam up hopefully this will give us an idea of what's going on.
Thanks again for your help and advice I will let you know how we get on.
Arlene
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Post by smilesbetter on Nov 18, 2014 17:12:54 GMT
Don't tell him off for toileting indoors, it won't work especially if you don't catch him do it. He will just think that every morning you tell him off for no reason and begin to get scared of you, he won't associate it with him having toileted no matter what you do. Not that you should tell him off when you catch him toiliting indoors either, as it will make him more likely to go to the toilet somewhere when you're not there as he'll be scared to toilet in front of you.
Anyway if other people are saying that this medication is causing their dogs to have accidents too, then I'd say it is most likely that and you should have another chat with your vet. Why was the dose increased anyway, were his fits coming more often?
Keep us updated!
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winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 18, 2014 19:51:24 GMT
Hi
I popped into my vets tonight and asked to speak to someone, been told a vet will call me tomorrow morning.
I agree as we are not there when he is toileting he doesn't know why hes getting told off, thing is while I tell him off he waggles that tail and runs away with a toy! Hes a bit of a character to be honest lol
His dose was increased as he was taking the fits quite regularly well once every week- ten days. Since increase hes going nearly 3wks which is great progress. He has recently been moved to a new vets and they are great his meds been increased twice and they check him regularly, previous to that the vets before never increased and he was taking up to 3 fits a week.
I will keep you updated, heres hoping i get somewhere with the vets tomorrow.
Thanks
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Post by patty on Nov 18, 2014 22:52:22 GMT
Ollie - our third Springer - was five months old when we got him - the oldest we have had a dog as a puppy and he'd been used to being with other dogs all his life. We had terrible trouble with him doing the same when we left him at night - he wee'd and poo'd and also howled. I had a read and came up with anxiety - which I'm sure lots of others have suggested. Perhaps something has spooked him- especially as he's blind - I don't think he's doing it purposefully. Ollie drove us mad and we finally relented and brought his bed into our bedroom - never heard a peep from him - he just didn't want to be on his own. Perhaps you could try your dog with you just you for a few nights just to rule it out? I know people will say no, no, but it is frustrating!
Re. medication - I would have thought you gave it in the morning (??) to give the effect when he needs it most (ie when he's awake/active) - if it's given at night the drug would be at it's highest level in the body which is when these events are happening - has the vet thought of perhaps doing a drug level to see if it's ok. I suffer from epilepsy myself - so I do feel for him - and I do know that not only too little drug promotes attacks but too much can cause them also.
i can't think of anything worse than not being able to see - good job he's got you as his angel.
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Post by lotsofcats on Nov 19, 2014 10:21:40 GMT
Welcome to the forum. I think I agree with the last post and that the cause of Winston peeing and pooing in the night could be anxiety. Have you tried leaving a radio on for him?
Well done in taking on a blind and epileptic dog - he is a lovely dog. I have a 16 year old dog called Aztec and he has been blind for about 2 years. I have problems with him peeing in his bed. He wakes me up every night barking to go out for a pee but sometimes he just pees in his bed - even in front of me when he hasn't asked to go out!
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winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 19, 2014 11:03:50 GMT
Hi Patty/LotsofCats Many thanks for your replies, sorry to hear about Ollie - glad hes now ok and settled. Also sorry to hear about Aztec did he go blind through age or were there any problems? We had a yorkie previous she was 16 too and she was really incontinent she would lye in her own urine its so sad to watch isn't it. Both are gorgeous dogs I think you could both be right about the anxiety I have read more on his medication and a lot of people are saying epiphen can cause anxiety and confusion. Last night is a good example with regards to anxiety we took him out 4 times between 1630 and 2230 twice being 30 minute walks and he had a good run around he was also hyper and running mad about the house so I thought great he will hopefully be tired. We put him into bed at 2245 and true as expected he was out for the count then PING 3am he started whining my partner went down and told him it was still bed time so he went back into bed. Again 4:15am whining again so I went down I know a lot of people say don't etc but I worry with the whining it could cause a fit. As soon as I went down he settled because I was there so I stayed with him for ten minutes then again 5am more crying. I bit the bullet and took him out as I thought maybe he needed to go. I walked him for 25 minutes and he eventually done a small pee so I don't think the crying was down to needing the toilet? He gets his medication every 12hours - 7am and 7pm he is on 0.7ml of epiphen and 1/4 libromide each time. Thank you both for your lovely & kind comments, when we went to get him the breeder sensed he could be blind but the vet said he was too young to confirm it. We knew then he was the one and we would never look back. He does demand a lot of attention and can be quite needy/whiney when he is out his comfort zone but apart from that he is your usual 2 year old hyperactive dog! Hes great fun and has a great nature. very friendly and confident! Sometimes I wonder if he is fooling us as he can be very naughty and very fly and I think can you see??? It was confirmed by our vet when he was 3 months that he was fully blind and I suppose he does not know life any different so he always coped. He has always slept downstairs on his own and it only seems that when his epiphen dose increased this has started, some morning I would have to wake him up! I am considering taking him upstairs with us tonight even thought we always been against it, but I am hoping this helps. I will keep you posted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 21:26:02 GMT
Hopefully things WILL soon sort themselves out (((HUGS))) Does he sleep in a crate or even have his own bed? Perhaps bringing him up into your bedroom may help him as he'll then be with his family (his pack, as it were, which IS what dogs evolved to do...live in a group) instead of being isolated on his own and then he may be a lot more relaxed in himself which may lead to a decrease in his seizures? Let us know how things go (((HUGS)))
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winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 19, 2014 22:06:31 GMT
Hello gillykat Thanks for ur reply Yes he has his own bed which he has always slept in, we are taking him upstairs tonight so heres hoping he settles. Will update you all in the morning. Heres hoping we get a nights sleep - its required!!
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winstonsmum
Newbie
Posts: 7
Animals I love: Dog's
Pets I own: Jackadoodle
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Post by winstonsmum on Nov 20, 2014 8:21:27 GMT
Morning all,
Just an update since we took Winston upstairs last night, first of all he didn't seem to want to sleep in his own bed! But with lots of "down" and "into your own bed" he was persuaded.
However I woke around 1am and he was at the bottom of our bed, he was pacing around as if he still couldn't settle, this happened on and off until 3am. He then settled back in his own bed and woke me again at 5am, he was back on our bed.
My partner told him to go into his own bed again and then the whining started.
After around ten minutes he finally settled and fell asleep until I got up at 6:30am, there were no accidents which was a huge relief.
I took him out and he did not seem like he was desperately needing, after around 20 minutes he finally done his business.
I have done some more research on the medication and all this pacing around and not settling seems to be a side effect of the epiphen.
My vet didn't call yesterday so I will phone them again this morning as they keep telling us not to worry etc but its alright them saying its us that have to go through it - while he still is his usual mad happy energetic self he never ever used to get up through the night, he also never had any accidents. He just seems to be really anxious at bed time.
I have decided to keep him upstairs again tonight so we will see how he gets on.
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