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Post by alfiemummy on Sept 2, 2014 18:26:18 GMT
Some of you may know that I am a dog walker - I have just recently got a new dog, a 3 year old GSD bitch. A little bit of background on the dog... The owners have only had her for 2 weeks, she is an ex breeder that was no longer needed. She has only just recently had her last litter before they brought her home. She is a very timid dog and it took a little while for her to warm up to her new owners. I started walking her yesterday, I was due to be walking her for an hour but it took me half an hour just to get a lead on her. When I came in the house she was barking and growling and wouldn't come near me, I sat down on the sofa until she had calmed down a little and stopped but she was still clearly in no mood to come near me. I slowly shuffled up the sofa until I was close enough for her to sniff my leg, then the lead and then my hand. I made the lead into a slip as I was a bit worried about reaching for her collar, once I had the slip over her head she trotted away with me just fine and we went for our walk. During the walk she let me stroke her and kept nudging my hand with her nose which was good progress. When I went round again today it didn't go so well, I didn't manage to get her out for a walk at all as she wouldn't stop barking and growling when I went near her. I spent the full hour there and nothing seemed to work, I tried shuffling up the sofa again but when I got near her she started barking again, I tried to call her into the next room but she was having none of it. I'm due to go round again tomorrow afternoon. I have discussed the issue with the owner and we have decided that if it doesn't go well tomorrow that I will pop round a few times while they are there and take her for a walk with them in the hope that she might get used to me. Does anyone have any advice on what to try? It is a shame that we seem to have gone backwards
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Post by cazypops on Sept 2, 2014 19:23:55 GMT
poor girl, it sound like she didn't have a very good previous life. I think going round while the owners are there and just sitting in the room and ignoring her might help her to get used to you before you try taking her out again. Sorry not much help I'm afraid.
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Post by caz2golden on Sept 2, 2014 19:28:47 GMT
I think meeting and walking dog with owners is a good idea. Then maybe meet owners at house and walk dog on your own. Sorry I dont have any advice to offer.
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Post by orpheous87 on Sept 2, 2014 21:38:35 GMT
Like the two Caz's said, I think going round while the owners are there would be a good idea. It seems like it would have been a good idea for them to get you to do that before sending you in on your own to walk her. Especially if it had taken her a while to get used to them. Hope it goes better tomorrow. Sorry I have no real advice to offer either.
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Post by alfiemummy on Sept 2, 2014 21:58:49 GMT
I agree with you all that it seems like the best option. Unfortunately I don't have much choice but to go on my own again tomorrow as I didn't have time to go round tonight. I'm hoping it goes a little better but we will see. After tomorrow I don't have to walk her again until mid next week so plenty of time to visit - although I am on holiday from fri-mon. Ideally I should have walked her with them a few times before doing it on my own like you said orpheous87, but I only went to visit them the first time on saturday, I was out all day sunday and they wanted me to start on monday so it wouldn't have been possible.
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charlesroast
Newbie
digging out the sleeves
Posts: 31
Animals I love: it depends on how they have been prepared
Pets I own: Dog, fish, cat
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Post by charlesroast on Sept 3, 2014 0:53:03 GMT
Oof. It is indeed sad when that happens. My dad has a rescue that is a bit excitable like that and one that he got from a puppy that was just born with a wire loose haha. It would be overstating the obvious to say just be patient but I don't really have any other advice. It may have to do with the trauma specifically and how some animals "let go" easier than others. All I know is that if I didn't have thumbs and a human had been mean to me, I would be wary of others for a bit too. Hope things get better though!
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Post by McCuddles on Sept 3, 2014 5:57:11 GMT
Sorry to hear about this. Good for the dog though that you are willing to persevere and not give up so good on you. I can't add much extra except to say yes to visit when owners and there and join a walk with the owners. Also if you are there by yourself to spend some time in the same room but avoid eye contact etc and randomly throw a few small treats about so she associates you with good things. Let her come to you in her own time. I hope with time she comes around to you. How is she in the house when you're by yourself if you just ignore her? Does she seem scared, cower away. I would maybe go in and start pottering about (maybe do their dishes ha ha) throwing random treats. Good luck
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Post by smilesbetter on Sept 3, 2014 9:20:28 GMT
* sorry for the huge message!! *
Hope it goes better for you today, and great that you are able to work with the owners and hopefully get her used to you. I'm sure you've tried it already, but have you tried working with food to get her to trust you?
I remember reading about a famous painter who loved animals, and she started by leaving food out for some either foxes or badgers and going away, and slowly over the weeks she would get a bit closer as the animals became more confident around her smell and then around seeing her in the distance. After a while of doing this, she got closer and closer until she was able to sit amongst them as the adults and even their young (shows how much the adults trusted her!) played around her and allowed her to handle them.
What I mean by that is, you could try going in and putting down a small portion of food, agreed with the owners of course as naturally this would come out of her daily portion, and standing nearby while she eats. She will begin to associate you with feeding and be excited to see you slowly. Then you can try reaching over as she eats and clipping on the lead. It shouldn't actually take too many sessions doing this, dogs are very responsive to this kind of training. You may even find that she will take it from your hand just after one or two visits, but I would focus more at first on having the food on the ground and observing her body language and acting on that. If you can, do the first sessions with the owners there and if she is still barking at you, have them pick the food out of the bowl and hold it up to her to eat. She should feel more safe with her owners around her and then begin to associate you with good food, even though you aren't the one giving her it.
When I started feeding Sasha (my family's rescue dog who is dog aggressive due to being petrified of other dogs) with Rosa in sight, on the first day I had to hand feed her as she couldn't take her eyes off Rosa. Even by the second day, Sasha was taking breaks in her barking to start eating, and as she ate her hackles would go down and she eventually stopped the growling and eating at the same time thing. It took a month, but before Rosa and I left for Germany, the two dogs had an (admittedly unexpected) meeting where they both just sniffed and Sasha quickly returned to the kitchen when told. So there is hope, haha.
There is a possibility that she actually has a fear of being outdoors by the way, from what you've described of her behaviour out there. Then she may have quickly associated you with being outdoors or being on the lead or whatever else it is she is fearful of (she sees and is fed by the owners every day, so wouldn't be like that with them) so when you do get her out, I would recommend observing her behaviour and trying to establish what causes it, as it really sounds like she has some kind of fear when on the lead from what you've said about her behaviour. I know it will all be hard work for you, but I'm sure it will make a huge difference to this dogs life if you stick with it and you may end up with a wonderful walking companion out of it.
Some dogs are terrified of being on the lead as being "chained" like that makes them feel they are powerless and can't protect themselves, which could be the issue this dog has, but hard to tell without seeing, it could be anything. You might wanna stick to quiet walks with lots of reward (whatever this dog likes best of course) to begin with to try and build up her confidence.
Good luck, and well done for sticking with her and not giving up, I sure you'll find she's a lovely dog once she gets past her issues. GSDs are wonderful companions I find. My sister used to have one who had a dog-aggression problem, when I was in high school. It took a lot of work but I eventually trained him out of it and it was one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had with a dog, the first time I walked him past a dog and he didn't give it even the time of day haha, he just marched past, paying attention to me. Unfortunately my sister then got rid of him haha, gutted!
I know I always recommend the food thing by the way, but it does work, it's always worked for me and I am always reading about people using similar methods which have worked too.
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Post by migsy on Sept 3, 2014 14:44:55 GMT
Some fantastic tips in above posts,and I was about to say avoid eye contact at all costs.Sadly the dog has obviously had a rotten early life,and is the last dog that should have ever been used for breeding.With lots of patience,love,and taking things at a snails pace,she still has the potential of making a fantastic pet.I just hope the owners have as much patience and understanding as you,as any harsh treatment or raised impatient voices can undo all your hours of good work in a jiffy.Good luck with this alfiemummy.
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Post by zahada on Sept 3, 2014 16:32:28 GMT
I haven't read all the replies so apologise if duplicating ideas. Could you leave your t-shirt at the dog's house so your scent he becomes familiar to her?
Also would she follow you into the garden and let you put a lead on her there?
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Post by zahada on Sept 3, 2014 19:51:38 GMT
Could work the other way round too - the owners could let you have a t-shirt that they have worn and you could carry it when entering the house.
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Post by alfiemummy on Sept 3, 2014 21:14:01 GMT
Thanks for all the tips and support guys And apologies in advance for a long post! Unfortunately today went (if possible) even worse She is kept in the conservatory at the back of the house while they are out, as I approached the living room she flew at the door barking. I had already decided I was going to sit on the sofa and ignore her until she had calmed before opening the door which worked nicely. I opened the door and went back to the sofa but she just stayed in her bed. I got up to potter about in the kitchen a few times and she still didn't move, in the end I went to get up from the sofa to get some food for her from the fridge when she suddenly flew at the open door barking (which scared the life out of me, I'll be honest!), she never entered the living room and I ended up leaving shortly after as my time was up. McCuddles, she isn't settled at all while I'm there, she'll stay in her bed and just stare at me, even if I'm ignoring her. smilesbetter, when I went round to visit them before I started walking her they told me that they were having trouble getting her to eat and that she is very fussy. Her owners left out a pouch of wet food and a packet of corned beef (which apparently she loves) for me to try with her today. I started by throwing little bits of corned beef to her which she ate, but when I went to throw another she ran at the door barking as soon as my hand entered the room. I left a little of the wet food in her bowl by the door and went back to the sofa in the hope she would approach and eat it which didn't work. When she came barking at the door later she suddenly realised it was there and started to eat it then instead. You could be right about her being scared of the outdoors, she seemed quite happy to me but I could have got it wrong. She seems to be very aware of what's going on. zahada, that's a good idea about the t-shirt, I will try that. I can't actually get into the garden as she is kept in the conservatory and you have to go through that to get to the garden. She isn't letting me into the conservatory. I was able to get into the garden on the first day but she made no attempt to follow me. After what happened today I contacted the owner and arranged to go while she was there this evening. When she saw me at the door she started barking again, her owner was very shocked. She put her on a lead and I entered the house with her, the dog was obviously scared of me as she was pulling away. We sat on the sofa and had a chat with the dog sat on the rug. I tried offering her some corned beef again, she ate it when I threw some but then suddenly ran at me barking. We tried taking her for a walk together which went a little better, I tried talking to her in a nice voice but as soon as I did that she barked so I went back to completely ignoring her. For the whole walk she kept looking at me every few seconds and was trying to walk on the other side of her owner. The further away from the house we got, the better she seemed to be. As we got back onto her street she got noticeably worse. I'm not due to walk her again until wednesday, I've arranged to pop round twice on tuesday to walk her with her husband and we'll see what happens.
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Post by migsy on Sept 5, 2014 19:04:14 GMT
How are you getting on regarding the dog walking alfiemummy? hope things are getting better.Don't like idea of leaving dog in a conservatory,if it's anything like mine they get boiling hot even with windows open,or are freezing cold with doors closed,bit like leaving a dog in a car.It sounds like she has lost her trust in people,or hasn't had any contact at all,poor dog.
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Post by zahada on Sept 5, 2014 19:17:10 GMT
Could you please provide more backgound on this dog? How many people live in the house? How much execise does she get? How is with the people in the house?
Do you wear the same clothes when you go to their house? Do you carry anything? How is she with other dogs? Does the smell of your dog or any other dogs you interact with upset her?
I find it inteesting that she seems to relax the futher she is from the house. That to me does not indicate fear of the outdoors.
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Post by alfiemummy on Sept 5, 2014 22:54:27 GMT
The conservatory isn't too bad at the moment - it's at the back of the house where the sun doesn't hit it so it has been cool. The owners have actually got a kennel in the garden for her which they intend for her to stay in during the day while they're at work but she has been whining and barking in there. They don't want her having run of the house, or at least not just yet as they have 2 cats as well.
It's just a couple with their 2 cats in the house. She gets a lot of exercise from what I've heard, a good couple of hours at least. She took a while to get used to her new owners but she seems to like them now. I wear different clothes and I don't carry anything except her lead - I left the lead on the side on the 3rd day to see if that helped but it didn't.
She's really interested in other dogs, when I walked with her owner she was saying hello and was very gentle and friendly.
I asked the owner about her previous home, she said that she was basically just left in a kennel without a whole lot to do with humans as far as she could tell. Probably not walked a whole lot but let out to play with the other dogs.
I had a thought, what if I took Alfie with me and walk them together? Not when I'm on my own but when I go to meet her when the owners are there. I'm thinking it might distract her from me as she seems to quite like other dogs. It could go the other way though and she won't like him if she associates him with me? I'm not sure...
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