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Post by Pawsforthought on Apr 17, 2014 15:28:31 GMT
The Pets4Homes, preloveds and Gumtrees of the world. Who is worse - the people who run such sites (in Gumtree's and preloved's cases, the people who decided it was ok to include living animals as a saleable item,) the people who sell animals on them or the people who buy pets from them? Who is it that needs better educating? Do these people know what is wrong with this particular sort of trade and still go ahead or do they actually not know?
What do you guys think?
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Post by SarahHound on Apr 17, 2014 19:23:31 GMT
I'm on the fence. I know there's a lot of bad on those sites, but I am guilty of buying from Gumtree, and I'm happy I did so, and would do it again.
Islay and Jura (my rabbits) came from a Gumtree ad. They'd been advertised just after I'd lost my old rabbit and I wanted a pair of baby girls but didn't want to support Pets at Home, so I got them. I later found out it was a best friend of mine from primary school selling them, and yes, she was at fault as she'd bought them as Christmas presents for her 18 month old daughter and was selling them in February. I'm so happy I have them though, they are my ideal bunnies.
Arran was also from Gumtree. His owner was unwell and could no longer keep him. I bought him aged 3, neutered and vaccinated, and his owner really was broken to give him up.
Ailsa was from a Facebook rehoming group. Her owner had a baby and didn't have enough time for her anymore. The woman lived 150 miles away from me, but she seemed like my ideal bunny, so I was trying to work out a way of getting there, when she offered to do a 300 mile round trip to bring her to me, and wanted absolutely nothing but a good home.
My guinea pigs Milo, Deano, Peggy and Hazelnut were also all from Facebook pet groups. Milo was a teenagers who was bored of him. The trio were from an alcoholic who couldn't look after herself let alone them.
Sorry for all this, but I had to tell the reasons why I got them. The three rescues near me who rehome rabbits and guinea pigs really are not good. The only animal I have adopted from a small animal rescue was Lewis, and it was a terrible experience, compared to all the ones I've had from free online ads. I have absolutely no problems adopting from Gumtree, and was even looking before Bobby came along.
I know there is a lot of bad, I'm not daft, and I know a lot of people would not put rabbits and guinea pigs in the same category as dogs and cats, but as rabbits are the most neglected type of pet in Britain, they do count just as much! However I really feel you can tell when an ad/poster is dodgy, its just a case of using common sense.
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Post by cazypops on Apr 17, 2014 19:56:07 GMT
I agree with SarahHound, about sitting on the fence. We got Jasper from Pets4Homes, I was looking for a breeder near us but couldn't find one and this site kept being flagged up while searching and I have no regrets at all. Plus befor people had access to the internet then they used local newspapers and shop windows. The animals are already here and need homes. If someone has a pet they can no longer look after for whatever reason, they need an outlet to help find a new home for them. The animal shelters can't take every unwanted animal, so there would be a lot more healthy animals PTS. |
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Post by smilesbetter on Apr 18, 2014 3:29:14 GMT
I'm not sure what I think, when it's a big company I don't agree with it really, as that's purely for profit, but at the same time I got Carlotta from an eBay advert (she would have just been sent to a shelter otherwise) and also found Rosa on there. In Berlin lots if animal shelters use the local eBay site (I should say, this eBay site is only for small stuff collected by buyer and not bidded for) to advertise their animals and I do think it increases the pets chances of finding the right home. They still vet potential new owners, it just means they reach more people. Any for the average one off "breeder" it can often be the only way to reach people. It's the same as putting an ad in the newspaper!
If anyone is at fault, it's potential owners jumping in and buying or taking on a pet without first researching it and preparing for it. No matter where they buy it, it's gonna be the same so I guess the Internet isn't to blame. While the Internet makes it easier, they could just as easily go to pets at home and buy a pet without much thought into it.
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Post by alfiemummy on Apr 18, 2014 10:47:02 GMT
I am also guilty of buying from Pets4Homes. There can be good and bad everywhere.
It wasn't my decision where we bought Alfie from as I was only 15 at the time, it was my parent's decision. They didn't want to get a pedigree from a breeder as they thought it was too expensive, we just wanted a pet. And rescues never seem to have the breed we were after (a cocker spaniel). It is also not easy to find puppies of a certain breed unless you go to a breeder.
When we went to see Alfie you could tell it was a loving family home, the puppies were all clean and evidently healthy and the house and family were lovely too. The one huge mistake we made was that we never saw Alfie's parents, the woman told us that the mother was away - I can't remember why now - but it seemed like a genuine reason. And the father was the local farmer's dog, so the litter was an 'accident'. Of course when you are there cuddling the puppies it is very hard to turn away again, we picked Alfie up the next week.
If I was to buy a puppy again I would do it differently, I would absolutely see the parents and probably go to a breeder or rescue. As I said at the time it was not my decision - I just wanted a puppy!
Even after all that, we have never ever had a problem with Alfie. He has only been to the vets for his regular check ups and has always been a picture of health. The only other times he has been to the vets are for accidental reasons (a grass seed in the ear) and nothing to do with his health.
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Post by migsy on Apr 18, 2014 14:05:42 GMT
I was chatting to man on the beach one time with his beautiful young G.Retriever,he told me he had sadly lost his old retriever,and felt so lost himself without it,he found himself trawling dog rescue sites one night.The present dog was the result,he found it on the pre loved site,and both were clearly besotted with each other.
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Post by tonib on Apr 18, 2014 16:39:17 GMT
Its a bit of swings & roundabouts. The idea of being able to find a pet a home in circumstances when it can't be kept is good but like all good ideas it can be abused. For example providing an easy way for back street breeders/puppy farms to find a potential mug or potential purchasers not being quite what they seem & whnating the animal for other purposes other than a family pet. If only potential purchasers could be given a check list of questions to ask, be able to see the pet in its normal surroundings, including for puppies the parents (although not always possible to see the father if an accident) etc. & something for legitimate sellers to find out more about the purchasers. The whole principle of the internet, of course, spreads the area over which these trades can take place which adds more elements of risk into the sale/give away, adding more risk in to the process than an advert in a local paper. For me I'd always go to a rescue but even then you never know the full history but at least they've got some idea of the nature of the pet & do some checks of the potential new owners. Difficult if the local ones aren't good though as in the case of Sarah. But then I rarely use ebay or any private sale site for anything. Perhaps a bit too cautious!  |
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Post by smilesbetter on Apr 18, 2014 16:49:56 GMT
Rosas breeders got is to come for an interview about two weeks before we got her and kept in touch via emailing so it worked out great for us. Both sides are still in touch, I know Rosa came from a loving home and they continually say how happy they are to see how well Rosa is doing On the other hand, Carlotta's owners were getting rid of her in weird circumstances and as she has bad teeth, Hyperesthesia and a regular sickness problem I imagine they just got fed up of the vet bills and vomit! They mentioned she didn't have a string stomach but we had no idea what we were in for haha. I love her and am glad we got her, but they should have been honest and got her a good home rather than pawning her off on anyone willing to pay. She struck lucky with us I think  |
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Post by Pawsforthought on Apr 18, 2014 20:01:02 GMT
For example providing an easy way for back street breeders/puppy farms to find a potential mug or potential purchasers not being quite what they seem & whnating the animal for other purposes other than a family pet. Those are the sorts of people I'm referring to, not rescuing! I mean breeders selling puppies on sites. I just personally don't see why they should have to advertise them on such sites except to get more money more quickly. And guys, to be fair, I'm not talking about you lot! You have the brains to know what things to watch out for, but Joe public, who doesn't know his backyard breeders from his welfare wizards would hand cash over to anyone for a cute puppy! And I personally don't think you should support these things. I understand with rescues and people who genuinely want their pet to go to a good home, but I don't think you can see buying a puppy from a dodgy breeder as rescuing it from that situation, for the same reason you wouldn't buy from a known puppy farm. You just can't support those places with money so they can produce more and more pups! |
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Post by alfiemummy on Apr 18, 2014 20:14:04 GMT
And I personally don't think you should support these things. I understand with rescues and people who genuinely want their pet to go to a good home, but I don't think you can see buying a puppy from a dodgy breeder as rescuing it from that situation, for the same reason you wouldn't buy from a known puppy farm. You just can't support those places with money so they can produce more and more pups! No matter how sorry I feel for the puppies, I could never ever buy one from a dodgy breeder. I know some people seem to think that they are 'rescuing' that animal, but it is just a drop in the ocean and your money is just fuelling their trade! I often wonder how puppy farms seem to find homes for so many puppies, surely just looking at them you can tell that they are not healthy, some of them are filthy and obviously sick. But they are still able to sell them because people feel sorry for them and want to help! |
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Post by smilesbetter on Apr 18, 2014 20:59:41 GMT
Hmm, I think these dodgy breeders will find a way to get their puppies sold anyway. In Berlin, a huuuuge city (nearly more people than Scotland!) I think most people use eBay Kleinanzeigen (so the local eBay essentially) to advertise puppies, kittens and even horses although those not so much. These include pedigrees with and without papers, and both accidental and purposeful cross breeds, regular breeders (who usually also have own website) and one offs (as in the case of Rosas breeder). From 1000€+ Sphinx cats to European shorthairs free to good homes. For a good breeder it can be essential to finding the best homes for your puppies and they often get do many responses that they can be choosy.
I've not spotted so much shady traders on there, but then most offer for you to meet at least the mother and you would always go to visit the breeder first for a sort of interview so both sides can decide.
I've never heard of puppy farming here although I'm sure it exists. The thing with eBay Kleinanzeigen is that you would usually go to the home of the breeder to get the puppy. I'd hope that any breeder trying to avoid this would be reported immediately. I do think though that eBay should cover their pet section with advice for buyers and have a phone number for people to call if they suspect puppy farming is going on along with info on how to spot it.
At the end of the day, no matter how someone advertises a puppy for sake, a puppy farm can use and abuse the same method. They probably advertise in the newspaper and local noticeboards too just like everyone else.
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Post by Roo on Apr 18, 2014 21:11:45 GMT
It is so easy to say you'd never get a puppy from squalid conditions until you're actually in that situation!
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Post by smilesbetter on Apr 18, 2014 21:35:18 GMT
In that case I'd report the breeder immediately (and persistently till something is done), but yeah it would be hard to leave an animal suffering.
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Post by Roo on Apr 18, 2014 21:54:24 GMT
In that case I'd report the breeder immediately (and persistently till something is done), but yeah it would be hard to leave an animal suffering. The reason I say that is because one of our old dogs, Jazz, was from an absolutely disgusting woman who couldn't care less about the dogs - the RSPCA were called out numerous times (and true to their nature, they did nothing) after Jazz's litter - she even threw puppies over her fence and drowned them in a river (two were found by two young boys who took them home (their parents ran a bulldog rescue) and it was too late). Oh yes that's right, you'd leave a puppy (or any animal) in that environment where they have no hope in life! I really find it hard to believe you would all leave any animal like that ... And if you would, well ... |
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Post by Pawsforthought on Apr 18, 2014 22:21:33 GMT
Roo - the point is, that goes on and will continue to if people carry on buying puppies from people like that! It's better for the future dogs that may be bred in the future by that person if the person is reported and their animals seized, and if they won't be seized or indeed if the person next door to me had puppies in horrid conditions I could see, I'd probably do something illegal (ie. steal them..) but I would NEVER pay them. Ever. I couldn't bear knowing my money was paying for that person to do that. smilesbetter - thing is, the sites are just a very easy portal for selling farmed puppies, and those sites have to take responsibility somehow and see to it that it is changed to make it harder to do so!
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