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Post by katherine on Feb 6, 2014 15:08:51 GMT
Hi guys I was just after some advice as I am a bit worried... Yesterday was my boyfriends 21st birthday and he decided he wanted to go down to the local pub for a couple of chilled out pints at 7:00pm . We were out on time, leaving Lucas in his crate with his bed and toys, and we stayed at the pub with some friends until last orders. Being his 21st we were later than we thought we would be and we got home at around half eleven/ twelve o clock. Much to our surprise, we were barely home for ten minutes and our doorbell rang and it was our neighbour from the downstairs flat, complaining that the dog had been whining since half past nine, completely putting a down on our fun night. It was as if she had been sat waiting for us to get in. Now, the lady downstairs is retired, and has been away from home for months (since the end of October to be precise). She has only been back two days now and shes already on our backs about the dog. Obviously Liam and I are unaware of Lucas' whining when we are out of the house but he is still a puppy and he has come on leaps and bounds since we got him. Although not a rescue, we both believe that Lucas didn't come from a particularly loving home and we are busting our backs to do everything we can. He is a beautiful, happy and caring dog and his whining during the night has totally stopped. We are first time dog owners and I am pretty proud of what we have achieved in a matter of weeks. Lucas has come out of his shell and his personality is starting to shine through. He is obedient now with most things which I am so pleased with; he sits, paws, lies down and even happily goes into his crate when asked. But there is one thing we can't control... if he whines when we are out... obviously we can try to help it of course! I thought I'd get a few things straight. We asked the landlord who is an ex policeman if it would be okay to have a dog and he said yes. I understand that there are things people can do about noisy dogs, but I don't believe he was doing it for 2 hours solid and I certainly don't see the huge problem if shes not losing sleep because of him. She came round to the house and claimed 'Its not fair to the dog' as if we were abandoning him and he was unloved. Also she said 'I'm not prepared to put up with a dog'  ... Well obviously when I heard this from upstairs I was fuming. From everything she said, I am now scared to leave the house without the dog.  I have uni for a few hours a couple of days a week and Liam works, but other than that he is always with us. If Lucas is whining, I think he might possibly grow out of it with time, as he get older and more independent. I was just wondering if you guys knew about the things she could do if it continued because she seems like the type of person that would take it further if she wasn't best pleased. I'm worried, I couldn't sleep last night because of it.  Liam said he will go and speak to her today I'm so nervous. I understand she has the right to live in peace, but we also have the right to have a dog if we want one without people bothering us. She told us before she left months ago she really didn't enjoy living here and she was planning to move back to where she came down from when her tenancy for the flat was up. I just think its a bit cheeky and rude to be gone for all that time, then the minute on return have something to say. If it was me, I would approach it like ... 'I'm not sure if you were aware of this, but your dog seems to be whining a lot when you're not home' etc... I hope nothing bad comes of it, but at the end of the day hes still a puppy and will be for a while yet.. the worst of it is over. I just need some advice. (sorry about the length of the post)  |
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Post by Pawsforthought on Feb 6, 2014 15:23:12 GMT
I might be completely mistaken but I would have thought if the landlord was ok with it, she wouldn't really be able to do anything about it? She sounds like a petty, miserable woman. I would say, though, that for a young dog/puppy 4 1/2 hours is a bit too long to leave him. If I were you, I'd investigate local pubs that allow dogs  my two have been to hundreds of pubs and it has been very beneficial for their behaviour. Woody (black tri) was scared of children and some strangers and going to pubs helped him to gain a lot of confidence to the point where he cuddles up with my young cousins now and the most he does with strangers is a bum wiggle As for the lady, I think you should probably try not to rile her up too much, but if she starts making comments again try as nicely as possible to tell her that dogs often take a while to get used to things like being left, and if she could be patient you will continue to work with your dog to help him through his separation anxiety. I'm not suggesting the lady is right accusing you of being bad dog owners, but like I say, I think 4+ hours could be a bit too long for him. How long is he usually left? It sounds like 2 hours is his limit right now. So using this knowledge (which you are quite lucky to have because most people don't) you should start building him up slowly when you can. Half an hour or so at a time. Leave him for 2 hours every now and then with a TV/radio on and a stuffed kong (for example) until he seems quite confident with this and build up from there. Perhaps if this lady is so concerned for him she wouldn't mind helping you out by telling you whether he was whining or not? Anyway, good luck with him. As a dog owner, you will always have people like this to deal with, I've had MANY because one of my dogs is (we think) autistic and has in the past been attacked a lot by other dogs. Because of this, a lot of people would often make horrible remarks. I know when it's your own dog it's upsetting, but you'll grow a thicker skin and learn to ignore idiots  |
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Post by caz2golden on Feb 6, 2014 19:43:26 GMT
Is this lady also a tenant or does she own the flat she lives in?
Just if she owns and you are renting then you may find she can make life hard for you!!
I think pawsforthought has given lots of good advice about building up the leave periods where he can cope with your absence.
Does he follow you around the house when you are home or is he content to stay in one room while you are in another? If he does the former it is worth making him stay in a separate room for short periods.
My neighbours are good and understanding that dogs can and do make noise. I am very lucky to have them as neighbours, as I know mine are no angels!!For mine its the postman that sets them off!! They bark when I get home. They also bark as people go in and out of next door.
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Post by migsy on Feb 6, 2014 20:07:43 GMT
Katherine;good advice above.You will feel awkward and unsure of how to handle this if Lucas is your first dog.
Try at all costs to keep things light hearted with your neighbour,and explain Lucas is young and needs to settle in his surroundings.Whatever you do,don't be anxious or nervous around him as he will pick up on something being wrong.Gradually distance yourself from him so he doesn't get too dependent on you being around him all of the time,as dogs can get needy and that can be a problem.Is it possible to set up a camcorder so you can see how he behaves? Also remember to leave a radio on when you leave him on his own so he isn't left in silence
Some elderly people can be quite manipulative and bossy,and think they 'own' a place and have greater say than a younger neigbour,so be aware of that and don't allow her to feel she is getting to you.Being pleasant can disarm them so don't get riled.Good luck,Lucas will settle down.
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Post by katherine on Feb 6, 2014 22:22:13 GMT
Hello all thank you for you support. I really appreciate it. Pawsforthought, I have bought him a stuffed kong but we haven't used it yet, I am really eager to try it! and I shall speak to Liam about a radio if it will comfort him. I've tried building it up at different stages since we got the crate, like just popping to the local shop or going up to see my parents and stuff, so I don't feel I've just plunged him into the deep end when it comes to that but if it is going to be a longer period of time then it would be useful to get a radio perhaps.
Caz, she is a tenant in the downstairs flat who has a completely separate owner to the person who owns our upper flat. Lucas follows us around the house (not always) but we do keep him in a separate room at times and he doesn't whine. migsy, your last comment about thinking she owns something is I think quite true in this case. Its not just that though, I feel she is quite snobby and judgmental. I think she thinks Liam and I are a couple of immature kids who have went and got a dog without landlords permission. She doesn't know us that well either. Its actually dreadful. I get the feeling I' m being watched when I take the dog out and walk past her window and things I feel like shes sat downstairs listening to us and everything... horrible. I dreaded taking him out earlier... It's like someone has come knocking at your door insulting your child. She had a snobby tone and said nothing in a constructive manner. |
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Post by Pawsforthought on Feb 6, 2014 22:37:32 GMT
migsy, your last comment about thinking she owns something is I think quite true in this case. Its not just that though, I feel she is quite snobby and judgmental. I think she thinks Liam and I are a couple of immature kids who have went and got a dog without landlords permission. She doesn't know us that well either. Its actually dreadful. I get the feeling I' m being watched when I take the dog out and walk past her window and things I feel like shes sat downstairs listening to us and everything... horrible. I dreaded taking him out earlier... Can I just tell you about something that happened to us. Milo (black Lab) can bark at strangers if they scare him. However, he NEVER goes in to hurt people or even get close to them. He backs away when he barks. A while ago we were walking in our local woodland area when some woodland volunteers suddenly came around a corner in front of us in a large group, most of them carrying large tools for cutting trees and wearing helmets. Naturally, Milo ran towards them and barked, though he never got too close. We called him and he came back immediately. We thought the episode was over when two guys from the group approached us and starting swearing at us and reeling off abuse about Milo, saying he was a 'beast' and that they would report him if he came near them again. Avansa and I are 25 and 21 respectively, and found this experience to be extremely stressful (I'm still shaky now when I write it!) but it opened my eyes to the fact that when you have a dog, you WILL experience the worst side of people, and the worst side of people can be very nasty, cruel, rude or judgemental. So please, don't take this lady's comments to heart and ignore her. Prove her wrong by working with Lucas and also prove her wrong by not starting arguments. SOME older people forget how to behave with younger people, and seem to think it's their right to put you down and demoralise you. I often feel judged by those older than myself when out and about, but the thing is you just have to make it your business to prove people wrong. The funny thing is, I'm close friends with a lot of my nanny's friends! I get on with people of all ages, but to a lot of people looking at me, because I'm young, they assume I'm an ignorant obnoxious kid! Recently I was told off for not picking up my dog's poop while I was picking up his poop................................. I waved my bag at the older lady and she sort of huffed and walked away......  See what I mean? You can't escape idiocy when it's chasing you nipping at your heels, but you can choose to ignore it. And I mean no offence or ageism against any members. I'm purely talking from experiences in "real life" with older people, many of which have been pleasant but many unpleasant Sorry for my mega rant. Bringing us back on topic I just have to say, and I mean this as one concerned dog lover to another, sometimes training a behaviour takes anything up to a year. So he may need more slow building up alone time than it seems. Finn (Irish Setter) became noise phobic well over a year ago after a nasty incident with a public fireworks display and he's ONLY JUST showing signs of improvement. For the whole year working with him we thought he'd just be terrified of everything for life. I don't mean to depress you and make you think "Oh God, do I seriously have months of this?" but merely that his "lapse" in confidence being separated from you is normal and you will have more before his behaviour becomes consistently good Once again, good luck! (And again, sorry for the rant.) |
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Post by katherine on Feb 6, 2014 23:00:03 GMT
Its alright, its great advice and I'm nearly 21 as well so it must be something about us ;-) We are both more than willing to be patient with Lucas and work at it because I know helping/changing a dogs behaviour takes time. I was giggling about her comments before at how silly they were, that SHE wasn't prepared to put up with a dog.  I said to my mum, its not as if he is barking and whining into all hours of the night, he is restful and content. Somebody can't expect to leave home for months come back and not expect peoples lives to have continued. Honestly I'm in a right rut. Its awful when you feel like your being watched and listened to around your own home like. I will try to ignore her but like I say she seems the type that would take it further but personally I don't think she'd have a leg to stand on really... |
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Post by Pawsforthought on Feb 6, 2014 23:03:52 GMT
The worst thing you could do is stress and make your own life a misery. If you just carry on like normal and show her her words have no impact on you, that's the best thing We had a car stolen right outside our window not that long ago. If anything makes you feel like people are watching you in your home, it's something like that! My paranoid brain was saying to me "what if they saw the dogs and are going to come back and steal them?" But I concluded that there really was no point in working myself up and I should try my best to carry on as before. Life is too short! |
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Post by katherine on Feb 6, 2014 23:14:48 GMT
Oh my gosh that's awful!
Yeah, my mum said that we have the same right as her to be living here and that she can't just go round trying to dictate. Three out of the four flats linked together have a dog in them apart from hers.I personally think it's because we are younger than her, she thinks she can talk to us like children.
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Post by gladys on Feb 7, 2014 9:29:44 GMT
katherine Is there some way you can set up a video camera and record what he does when left alone? I have slowly been building Skalas time alone up but as I work from home it's been quite easy for me to do so. She is only 18 weeks old but is quite happy to be in her pen for about 3 hours at a time during the day, I am only in the other room in my office but she doesn't know that!! I make sure she is tired before she goes in her crate/pen and she sleeps for most of the time she is in there but I have recorded her and also sneaked back in and she is quite happy to play with her toys and blanket etc while in there. Living in the sticks I have to make sure the dogs are happy to be left as it takes me ages to get anywhere, just getting to a large town to do the weekly shop takes forever!! The video set up has helped me relax as I know she is never worried when left. I also think because I work from home I'm not rushing about to get out of the house. The normal routine is she can have a manic play and then a peaceful cuddle before going in her crate. I think this helps her to relax and go to sleep. So maybe keeping relaxed and calm before going out would help, get ready 10/15 mins earlier and then have a fast game and then a wind down cuddle before he goes away, this may help him settle. But recording him will let you know at what point he starts to make a noise and then maybe you could come back to him before that time and then slowly work on increasing it?
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Post by zahada on Feb 7, 2014 12:30:05 GMT
There is an app in iTunes stores called Dog Monitor app that may be of interest. Costs around £4, you need iPad, iPod touch, iPhone (or any combination) connected to the internet to see and hear what is going on in your home. www.tappytaps.com/ |
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Post by katherine on Feb 7, 2014 13:11:19 GMT
katherine Is there some way you can set up a video camera and record what he does when left alone? I have slowly been building Skalas time alone up but as I work from home it's been quite easy for me to do so. She is only 18 weeks old but is quite happy to be in her pen for about 3 hours at a time during the day, I am only in the other room in my office but she doesn't know that!! We do not have a camcorder and we both use our mobile phones while we are away from home. Unless one of us was willing to leave a phone behind or something. Yes, Lucas is more than happy to spend 3 hours at a time in his crate too, he is also a sleepy head, and he is no bother whether we are in the same room or not. Although it might be a good idea to get ready a little earlier just to try and get him settled down more. I thought perhaps putting his stuffed kong, a radio and I was thinking maybe a t shirt that I wear in with him before I leave? Would that comfort him? The app would be very useful, I would have to set up my old i pod though as all our other devices are android! Oh, and my thoughts about being watched have been confirmed. Liam took the dog out this morning and he told me Lucas whined a little outside because next door (the other way's) daughter, had a toy dog on a leash and Lukkie thought it was real so he whined a little. Liam said he looked over at downstairs window and she was stood there watching. I'm not having it, nobody has the right to make me us feel uncomfortable around our own home, its disgraceful. I feel as though she was dying to see what he looked like, whether he looked aggressive and stuff to her.. |
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Post by zahada on Feb 7, 2014 13:32:42 GMT
katherine Is there some way you can set up a video camera and record what he does when left alone? I have slowly been building Skalas time alone up but as I work from home it's been quite easy for me to do so. She is only 18 weeks old but is quite happy to be in her pen for about 3 hours at a time during the day, I am only in the other room in my office but she doesn't know that!! We do not have a camcorder and we both use our mobile phones while we are away from home. Unless one of us was willing to leave a phone behind or something. Yes, Lucas is more than happy to spend 3 hours at a time in his crate too, he is also a sleepy head, and he is no bother whether we are in the same room or not. Although it might be a good idea to get ready a little earlier just to try and get him settled down more. I thought perhaps putting his stuffed kong, a radio and I was thinking maybe a t shirt that I wear in with him before I leave? Would that comfort him? The app would be very useful, I would have to set up my old i pod though as all our other devices are android! Oh, and my thoughts about being watched have been confirmed. Liam took the dog out this morning and he told me Lucas whined a little outside because next door (the other way's) daughter, had a toy dog on a leash and Lukkie thought it was real so he whined a little. Liam said he looked over at downstairs window and she was stood there watching. I'm not having it, nobody has the right to make me us feel uncomfortable around our own home, its disgraceful. I feel as though she was dying to see what he looked like, whether he looked aggressive and stuff to her.. Kong and radio are a wonderful idea. Items with your scent should be comforting to him. There was a program on tv recently - I think it was about the animals mind part 1. About how dogs know when owners are due to come home. The theory is that the owners scent gets weaker during the day and the dogs know when owners are coming because the scent at level when the owners normally arrive. I know from my own dogs that they are calm and happy if I come home at my usual time. If I am late the dogs go mad and, apparently have been since my normal arrival time. The dog monitor app should be available in android later this year. |
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Post by Roo on Feb 8, 2014 13:31:26 GMT
First of all, even if a landlord had OK'd the dog, the council can still enforce whatever action on you. Our neighbour has a noisy Bichon, they own the house and still they are powerless if the council wanted to do something. Also, he whines for 6hours straight when on his own; so your puppy may have been whining the whole time you were gone and as you have said, you weren't there so you can't be sure.
Puppies thrive on company, I would suggest you work on leaving exercises. Such as leaving him in the crate and just standing outside your front door for 5minutes, and then once he is used to it, build up to another 5 etc.
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Post by BorderTerrier on Feb 8, 2014 15:38:50 GMT
Give Lucas a stuffed Kong before you leave, so he will almost look forward to being left alone! Leave the house and spend 5 minutes hiding in the garden or round the street only a small distance from the house. After those minutes, return and see if he is still chewing the Kong, or up and whining again. If he is contented, leave for more minutes. Possibly now 10. Increase the minutes and as soon as (if he) starts whining again, return and ignore him until he settles. Don't give him any food, don't immediately go for a walk or play with some toys, or he will be excited for you to return and anxious for his 'fun time'. He ail associate you coming home with something fun if you do this. In my opinion, once a dog is toilet trained and trained not to chew household objects, the dog is OK to be trusted out of a crate. The dog has more space, and has more space to spread out and chill. He may even enjoy spending time in a place where your scent is heavy whilst you are away, to comfort him and hopefully decrease his separation problem away from you. If he is out of a crate then he will have more room to lay down, chew his toys, etc. Spread an array of safe chew toys around the room for him to explore and chew on. Chewing is known to reduce stress levels in dogs as well - bonus!
When you said that you doubt Lucas will have been whining the entire time - he easily could have been! If he is that stressed out, he will not stop until he exhausts himself or you return. When you return, the relief will flood over him and he will be able to relax. Whining for long periods isn't good for dogs - its stressful and can lead to further and more problematic problems.
Regarding your neighbour, if you are allowed to own a dog the neighbour should not be able to do anything about it. I would be surprised if a neighbour could overpower a landlord who has said that you can own a dog in the first place.
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... Well obviously when I heard this from upstairs I was fuming. From everything she said, I am now scared to leave the house without the dog. 
I have uni for a few hours a couple of days a week and Liam works, but other than that he is always with us. If Lucas is whining, I think he might possibly grow out of it with time, as he get older and more independent. I was just wondering if you guys knew about the things she could do if it continued because she seems like the type of person that would take it further if she wasn't best pleased. I'm worried, I couldn't sleep last night because of it. 
Liam said he will go and speak to her today I'm so nervous. 
my two have been to hundreds of pubs and it has been very beneficial for their behaviour. Woody (black tri) was scared of children and some strangers and going to pubs helped him to gain a lot of confidence to the point where he cuddles up with my young cousins now and the most he does with strangers is a bum wiggle 
See what I mean? You can't escape idiocy when it's chasing you nipping at your heels, but you can choose to ignore it. 
