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Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:25:15 GMT
You can infer what you want from my post, nobody has any control of this. My point was that your views are merely uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence. Simple question - do you, SB. consider Bakers to be a good dog food with no risks to health or behaviour? Do you consider it better to use a food where the makers provide detailed information about ingredients, as opposed to the vague wishy-washy information provided about Bakers? Is your reference to my "uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence." referring to my post you quote immediately above this, or to my longer post, earlier, saying why I would not feed Bakers? If to my earlier post, then this is hardly 'uninformed opinion' but rather a conscious decision based on the clear reasons stated! As far as your criticism of views expressed regarding Bakers by veterinary nurses and/or vets, then perhaps their views derive from experience, even without qualifications in canine nutrition. I have no qualifications in canine nutrition but I defend absolutely my right to make decisions about dog food based on information provided by the makers: I assume you would not disagree with this (but who can say??) Simple answer - a) I do not consider Bakers as any better than many dog foods or any worse than many. Nothing in life is risk free. Chappie is a similar product with non specified ingredients and is often used by those people whose dogs are ill. It is only "better" to use specified ingredients per se if you have a dog that is intolerant or allergic to a specific ingredient. It is uninformed opinion because it is based on non scientific evidence. You can make whatever decisions you like about how you feed your dogs, and it matters not to me what people feed their dogs. What I am against is rumour, gossip and self styled experts who try to educate others on the basis of rumour and gossip. As I have said many times before, you can ass-u-me anything you like, it is a free world.
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Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:26:24 GMT
All I know is the one time I let Katy have Bakers her behaviour was horrid all day and she was hungry all day. Never again. Wow, who says correlation does not relate to causation............. very scientific and not to do with anything else possibly...........
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Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:29:41 GMT
Ah yes and E numbers are the Devils Spawn are they not? Yet another statement made with no specificity Curcumin (that stuff in Turmeric which is given to dogs and people for joint issues) has an E number Lycopene - the ingredient in tomato which is so good for health has an e number Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) has an e number These three examples demonstrate how evil these things are and need to removed at once right? Sigh. And then of course the vet nurse has had specific training in canine nutrition yes? And has a qualification on the subject and is qualified to advise? As for hyperactivity, another good one, what precisely in the food causes this and how was it diagnosed? I am always amused when in one post people say how little training veterinary profession have in nutrition and yet in another one quote them as a source of knowledge. Totally agree that not all E numbers are bad Have no idea if Bakers have changed what is in their food recently but from other websites I have read about it some of the E numbers dont sound as healthy as the ones you listed Some of the links with descriptions below:- www.doglistener.co.uk/bakers-pedigree-dogfoodwww.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/186242-truth-about-bakers-dog-food.htmlwww.westmidlandsdogtraining.co.uk/dogtrainingtips/diet-nutrition-a-feeding/64-bakers-dog-foodMay I ask where I have posted that my vets have no idea about nutrition? I am quite sure that I have not! Actually I am not one to slate my vets, think you may be muddling me with someone else!! I have used my vets as a source of advice on many things over the years and would hope they will continue to be a source of advice in the future The nurse in question is the dedicated person in the practice on nutrition, I have not specifically asked if she has a degree in the subject and have not felt the need to You may ask what you wish. I am sure she is dedicated to nutrition and if you want to believe anything that anyone tells you without verifying their credentials that is entirely up to you. I always challenge the suppositions and qualifications of all people from whom I seek professional advice. It would be stupid and short sighted to employ someone to whom I enturst my dog's nutritional care who did not have the relevant qualifiations, just as it would be stupid to ask a bricklayer to perforrm an operation on my dog. But what others do is entirely up to them. It is not my dog/s health at risk.
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Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:33:42 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!! And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions! That is so screamingly funny and very frightening at the same time. As if any rescue centre can actually enforce what you feed. What do they do, send round the food police to check every week. Still it demonstrates that there is in fact "one born every minute" and secondly that anyone who tried to dictate to me what I fed my dog would be given short shrift. No doubt they have no problesm in their rescue centre rehoming dogs with these policies. I think everyone should know their limits and the Codes of Practice that exist for most organisations specifically state that one should only give advice which you are competent to give. John has been dead a fair few years now and times have moved on.............
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Post by CollieSlave on Jan 12, 2014 16:38:09 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!! And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions! What pages of what books are these specific references by John Fisher please. Why Does My Dog ... (1991: 1995 reprint HB), chapter 1 pages 8 & 9; chapter 2 pages 11-13, are some examples.
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Post by CollieSlave on Jan 12, 2014 16:57:48 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!! And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions! That is so screamingly funny and very frightening at the same time.
As if any rescue centre can actually enforce what you feed.
What do they do, send round the food police to check every week. Still it demonstrates that there is in fact "one born every minute" and secondly that anyone who tried to dictate to me what I fed my dog would be given short shrift. No doubt they have no problesm in their rescue centre rehoming dogs with these policies. I think everyone should know their limits and the Codes of Practice that exist for most organisations specifically state that one should only give advice which you are competent to give. John has been dead a fair few years now and times have moved on............. What an unusual sense of humour you must have! I cannot see how this policy could be frightening since potential clients are entirely free to accept or reject this, or any, policy. And of course the policy could not be enforced : they could only rely on people, having agreed to the policy, to abide by it. Some people still have morals! As far as John Fisher is concerned, things have certainly changed (with regard, for example, to his expressed views on dominance) but the passage of time does not necessarily invalidate all his experience!
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Post by SarahHound on Jan 12, 2014 17:04:55 GMT
All I know is the one time I let Katy have Bakers her behaviour was horrid all day and she was hungry all day. Never again. Wow, who says correlation does not relate to causation............. very scientific and not to do with anything else possibly........... It's a thread about Bakers food and I gave my experiences with it. Simples. I didn't say anywhere it was scientific. You're making an arguement where there isn't one.
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Post by BorderTerrier on Jan 15, 2014 18:56:05 GMT
I am not THAT shocked, considering the amount of the flipping food they stock at supermarkets, asking for cheap sums of cash. And the amounts people take away… I feel sick to the stomach when I see an entire row of Bakers emptied from the shelves. If only people knew! The other day, whilst I was shopping at P@H, I had another sneak peek at the ingredients on a pack. It made me sign and shake my head again for not the first time!! SarahHound; your experience you posted about Katy + Bakers is valid and makes sense! Experiences aren't always scientific… they're just experiences that you have experienced and nothing can change that now! I MYSELF, do personally regard Bakers as a WORSE food than some (a lot of brands I know of), for definite! When you look at the ingredients, and simply see that the food is literally multi-coloured, you immediately have that feel in (or at least I do!). I find the Which Dog Food Website a very good and reliable one. The only downside is that it gives visitors the grief of seeing the amounts of views some WORSE dog foods have…
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Post by scallywag on Aug 14, 2019 6:26:21 GMT
Happy Birthday smokeybear where ever you are Boy does anyone remember the forum back in those days ? Just re read this wonderful thread again with a smile on my face. So many good members back then , not that I am saying yous all on here now are not good just mot so opinionated to cause such debates eh
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Post by caz2golden on Aug 25, 2019 20:16:17 GMT
Thought for a laugh I would have a look at allaboutdogfood website.
As of today 25th August 2019 in last 7 days Bakers adult was viewed 653 times The most viewed product was Orijen adult at 1906 views followed by Eden with 1884 views!
Am I being optimistic that perhaps this shows the change in perception of peoples opinions on what to feed their pets?
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