|
Post by CollieSlave on Jan 11, 2014 10:35:54 GMT
From the tone of SB's post, is it reasonable to assume that she regards Bakers as, at least, an acceptable dog food? I would think so. But does she, or would she, feed it to her dogs? I think not! She normally feeds raw but does have dried food for use when raw might not be available! Bakers? Not on your life - ORIJEN!! Nuff sed! You can infer what you want from my post, nobody has any control of this. My point was that your views are merely uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence. Simple question - do you, SB. consider Bakers to be a good dog food with no risks to health or behaviour? Do you consider it better to use a food where the makers provide detailed information about ingredients, as opposed to the vague wishy-washy information provided about Bakers? Is your reference to my "uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence." referring to my post you quote immediately above this, or to my longer post, earlier, saying why I would not feed Bakers? If to my earlier post, then this is hardly 'uninformed opinion' but rather a conscious decision based on the clear reasons stated! As far as your criticism of views expressed regarding Bakers by veterinary nurses and/or vets, then perhaps their views derive from experience, even without qualifications in canine nutrition. I have no qualifications in canine nutrition but I defend absolutely my right to make decisions about dog food based on information provided by the makers: I assume you would not disagree with this (but who can say??)
|
|
|
Post by SarahHound on Jan 11, 2014 11:57:56 GMT
All I know is the one time I let Katy have Bakers her behaviour was horrid all day and she was hungry all day. Never again.
|
|
|
Post by caz2golden on Jan 11, 2014 12:12:53 GMT
I can remember a long time back going for a health check with a vet nurse with one of my dogs, when I said I was interested in nutrition the first thing she said was 'please dont say you use Bakers, if you do change now'! I can remember laughing at that and saying I already knew how bad it was. She said it made dogs seriously hyperactive etc. Even my vet says its food to 100% avoid!! legal or not there are a lot of e numbers in that food! Ah yes and E numbers are the Devils Spawn are they not? Yet another statement made with no specificity Curcumin (that stuff in Turmeric which is given to dogs and people for joint issues) has an E number Lycopene - the ingredient in tomato which is so good for health has an e number Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) has an e number These three examples demonstrate how evil these things are and need to removed at once right? Sigh. And then of course the vet nurse has had specific training in canine nutrition yes? And has a qualification on the subject and is qualified to advise? As for hyperactivity, another good one, what precisely in the food causes this and how was it diagnosed? I am always amused when in one post people say how little training veterinary profession have in nutrition and yet in another one quote them as a source of knowledge. Totally agree that not all E numbers are bad Have no idea if Bakers have changed what is in their food recently but from other websites I have read about it some of the E numbers dont sound as healthy as the ones you listed Some of the links with descriptions below:- www.doglistener.co.uk/bakers-pedigree-dogfoodwww.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/186242-truth-about-bakers-dog-food.htmlwww.westmidlandsdogtraining.co.uk/dogtrainingtips/diet-nutrition-a-feeding/64-bakers-dog-foodMay I ask where I have posted that my vets have no idea about nutrition? I am quite sure that I have not! Actually I am not one to slate my vets, think you may be muddling me with someone else!! I have used my vets as a source of advice on many things over the years and would hope they will continue to be a source of advice in the future The nurse in question is the dedicated person in the practice on nutrition, I have not specifically asked if she has a degree in the subject and have not felt the need to
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Jan 11, 2014 12:38:47 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!!
And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions!
|
|
|
Post by SarahHound on Jan 11, 2014 13:44:00 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!! And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions! Yes I've seen that one, very sensible. I know a few collies fed Bakers and they really are not nice dogs. Maybe not connected, but who knows.
|
|
|
Post by Avansa on Jan 11, 2014 14:05:11 GMT
Is there any scientific peer reviewed evidence to prove that Bakers is detrimental to canine health and if so where can I find it? Sadly, the companies who have the funding to undergo such scientific tests are exactly those who produce the products. The best most people can do is to look at scientific papers that are made available, research to the best of ability what they can about the ingredients (many are unspecified, which as CollieSlave pointed out - begs the question "Why?") and make their own decision as to whether they are comfortable feeding their animals this product. The fact is, and this is not just applicable to Bakers, if meat is treated with preservatives before it is sold to the manufacturer it can claim that is has "No artificial additives". "Meat" used to make some dog food is known to have been treated with BHT - which is possibly thought of to be a cause of cancer. As the amounts are "negligible", it's apparently totally fine. But how negligible are the amounts over a dogs lifetime? At the end of the day, pet food is industrial waste, and I'm personally much more comfortable feeding actual meat - but that's just my opinion
|
|
|
Post by Pawsforthought on Jan 11, 2014 14:42:40 GMT
I don't know how anyone can condone feeding something that is in any way vague about its contents, unless they have done their own research into and experiments on said food and know something the rest of us don't. I wonder if smokeybear is simply being difficult because she imagines most of us don't know what about Bakers we don't like, but only that we don't like it? Perhaps she hates the idea of everyone going along with the crowd without the scientific backing? Well, I don't know. All I know is, I would never touch that crap (and by the way, the only backing I need is that Monty's poorly tummy got worse on it sufficiently to make him produce viscous green sludge from his rear end..) I am of the opinion that if I either don't know what something is, or don't know what it does, I'm not comfortable feeding it to my dogs.
|
|
|
Post by Roo on Jan 11, 2014 15:31:27 GMT
All I know is, my mum decided a few years ago the dogs might like it? They did, but dogs aren't experts or have knowledge in their nutrition, they were hyperactive, dull coats and bad poo. I think the later two are the best ways to see if your dog agrees with a food, personally.
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Jan 12, 2014 8:09:07 GMT
You can infer what you want from my post, nobody has any control of this. My point was that your views are merely uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence. Simple question - do you, SB. consider Bakers to be a good dog food with no risks to health or behaviour? Do you consider it better to use a food where the makers provide detailed information about ingredients, as opposed to the vague wishy-washy information provided about Bakers? Is your reference to my "uninformed opinion unsubstantiated by any scientific evidence." referring to my post you quote immediately above this, or to my longer post, earlier, saying why I would not feed Bakers? If to my earlier post, then this is hardly 'uninformed opinion' but rather a conscious decision based on the clear reasons stated! As far as your criticism of views expressed regarding Bakers by veterinary nurses and/or vets, then perhaps their views derive from experience, even without qualifications in canine nutrition. I have no qualifications in canine nutrition but I defend absolutely my right to make decisions about dog food based on information provided by the makers: I assume you would not disagree with this (but who can say??) I put a couple of questions to smokeybear in my post above. I presume that she has read my post: she was on the forum last night. But no response! I wonder why?
|
|
|
Post by scallywag on Jan 12, 2014 15:31:51 GMT
Still no response then ?
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Jan 12, 2014 16:02:56 GMT
NO! Perhaps she is reluctant to cast her Pearls (of Wisdom) before Swine (such as I)!!
|
|
|
Post by CollieSlave on Jan 12, 2014 16:07:59 GMT
And ... My two basic questions were -
Simple question - do you, SB. consider Bakers to be a good dog food with no risks to health or behaviour?
Do you consider it better to use a food where the makers provide detailed information about ingredients, as opposed to the vague wishy-washy information provided about Bakers?
Perhaps as there appears to be No "Scientific Peer Reviewed Evidence" regarding possible harmful/detrimental effects of Bakers dog food, she regards these questions as unanswerable.
But who can say? Perhaps an onslaught on my humble scribblings will appear later!
|
|
|
Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:18:35 GMT
On the subject of Bakers, there is a respected Border Collie Rescue centre that will not consider you as an adopter unless you sign what amounts to a sworn declaration NEVER to feed Bakers dog food to the dog!!! And the highly regarded behaviourist (the late) John Fisher relates cases of dogs exhibiting delinquent behaviour that were cured by a change of diet. Dunno if he had qualifications as a Canine Nutritionist but he certainly knew what he was doing! He regarded the dog food as a very significant factor in disturbed behaviour. But perhaps if he did NOT have Qualifications in Canine Nutrition we should disregarded his experience and opinions! What pages of what books are these specific references by John Fisher please.
|
|
|
Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:19:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by smokeybear on Jan 12, 2014 16:21:00 GMT
NO! Perhaps she is reluctant to cast her Pearls (of Wisdom) before Swine (such as I)!! I am sorry to be so late in responding to (whatever) I have been out training my dog, assessing a Pets as Therapy candidate, doing some housework and writing up a project.
|
|